Despite the refusal of the Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, to release any DNA results which might indicate the racial ancestry of Pharaoh Tutankhamen, the leaked results reveal that King Tut’s DNA is a 99.6 percent match with Western European Y chromosomes.
The DNA test results were inadvertently revealed on a Discovery Channel TV documentary filmed with Hawass’s permission — but it seems as if the Egyptian failed to spot the giveaway part of the documentary which revealed the test results.
Hawass previously announced that he would not release the racial DNA results of Egyptian mummies — obviously because he feared the consequences of such a revelation.
On the Discovery Channel broadcast, which can be seen on the Discovery Channel website here, or if they pull it, on YouTube here, at approximately 1:53 into the video, the camera pans over a printout of DNA test results from King Tut.
Firstly, here is a brief explanation of the results visible in the video. It is a list of what is called Short Tandem Repeats (STRs).
STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11
What does this mean? Fortunately, a genius by the name of Whit Athey provides the key to this list. Mr Athey is a retired physicist whose working career was primarily at the Food and Drug Administration where he was chief of one of the medical device labs.
Mr Athey received his doctorate in physics and biochemistry at Tufts University, and undergraduate (engineering) and masters (math) degrees at Auburn University. For several years during the 1980s, he also taught one course each semester in the electrical engineering department of the University of Maryland. Besides his interest in genetic genealogy, he is an amateur astronomer and has his own small observatory near his home in Brookeville, MD.
He also runs a very valuable website called the “Haplogroup Predictor” which allows users to input STR data and generate the haplogroup which marks those STR data.
For those who want to know what a haplogroup is, here is a “simple” definition: a haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation.
Still none the wiser? Damn these scientists.
Ok, let’s try it this way: a haplotype is a combination of multiple specific locations of a gene or DNA sequence on a chromosome.
Haplogroups are assigned letters of the alphabet, and refinements consist of additional number and letter combinations, for example R1b or R1b1. Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have different haplogroup designations. In essence, haplogroups give an inisight into ancestral origins dating back thousands of years.
By entering all the STR data inadvertently shown on the Discovery video, a 99.6 percent fit with the R1b haplogroup is revealed.
The significance is, of course, that R1b is the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Europe reaching its highest concentrations in Ireland, Scotland, western England and the European Atlantic seaboard — in other words, European through and through.
So much for the Afro-centrists and others who have derided the very obvious northwestern European appearance of a large number of the pharonic mummies. It seems like March of the Titans was right after all…
RELATED ARTICLES
- Researchers Warn Vaping is just as Harmful as Cigarettes
- DNA test to be added to Covid screening
- Justice in Corrupt Germany: 8 out of 9 Immigrants who Gang Raped Minor Girl in Park ON VIDEO, set Free
- FDA says Targeted Gene Therapy may CAUSE Cancer instead of Curing it
- Canada Confirms Undisclosed Presence of DNA Sequence in Pfizer Shot
Loading ...
Reality Check:
The Mamluks, 1250-1517 : Egypt
“To understand the history of Egypt during the later Middle Ages, it is necessary to consider two major events in the eastern Arab World: the migration of Turkish tribes during the Abbasid Caliphate and their eventual domination of it, and the Mongol invasion.
Turkish tribes began moving west from the Eurasian steppes in the sixth century. As the Abbasid Empire weakened, Turkish tribes began to cross the frontier in search of pasturage. The Turks converted to Islam within a few decades after entering the Middle East.
…The Turks also entered the Middle East as mamluks (slaves) employed in the armies of Arab rulers. Mamluks, although slaves, were usually paid, sometimes handsomely, for their services. Indeed, a mamluk’s service as a soldier and member of an elite unit or as an imperial guard was an enviable first step in a career that opened to him the possibility of occupying the highest offices in the state. Mamluk training was not restricted to military matters and often included languages and literary and administrative skills to enable the mamluks to occupy administrative posts.
In the late TENTH CENTURY, a new wave of Turks entered the empire as FREE WARRIORS AND CONQUERORS. One group occupied Baghdad, took control of the central government, and reduced the Abbasid caliphs to puppets. The other moved west into Anatolia, which it conquered from a weakened Byzantine Empire.
The Mamluks had already established themselves in Egypt and were able to establish their own empire because the Mongols destroyed the Abbasid caliphate. In 1258 the Mongol invaders put to death the last Abbasid caliph in Baghdad. The following year, a Mongol army of as many as 120,000 men commanded by Hulagu Khan crossed the Euphrates and entered Syria.
Meanwhile, in Egypt the last Ayyubid sultan had died in 1250, and political control of the state had passed to the Mamluk guards whose generals seized the sultanate.
In 1258, soon after the news of the Mongol entry into Syria had reached Egypt, the Turkish Mamluk Qutuz declared himself sultan and organized the successful military resistance to the Mongol advance.
The decisive battle was fought in 1260 at Ayn Jalut in Palestine, where Qutuz’s forces defeated the Mongol army.
An important role in the fighting was played by Baybars I, who shortly afterwards assassinated Qutuz and was chosen sultan. Baybars I (1260-77) was the real founder of the Mamluk Empire. He came from the elite corps of Turkish Mamluks, the Bahriyyah, so called because they were garrisoned on the island of Rawdah on the Nile River. BAYBARS I established his rule firmly in SYRIA, forcing the Mongols back to their Iraqi territories.
At the end of the fourteenth century, power passed from the original Turkish elite, the Bahriyyah Mamluks, to Circassians, whom the Turkish Mamluk sultans had in their turn recruited as slave soldiers. Between 1260 and 1517, Mamluk sultans of Turco Circassian origin ruled an empire that stretched from Egypt to Syria and included the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. As “shadow caliphs,” the Mamluk sultans organized the yearly pilgrimages to Mecca. Because of Mamluk power, the western Islamic world was shielded from the threat of the Mongols.
The great cities, especially Cairo, the Mamluk capital, grew in prestige. By the fourteenth century, Cairo had become the preeminent religious center of the Muslim world.
http://countrystudies.us/egypt/17.htm
A little history, please…(Wikipedia)…
Rise of the Ottoman Empire (1299–1453)
Main article: Rise of the Ottoman Empire
With the demise of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rūm (c. 1300), Anatolia was divided into a patchwork of independent states, the so-called Ghazi emirates. By 1300, a weakened Byzantine Empire had lost most of its Anatolian provinces to ten Ghazi principalities. One of the Ghazi emirates was led by Osman I (from which the name Ottoman is derived), son of Ertuğrul, around Eskişehir in western Anatolia. In the foundation myth expressed in the medieval Turkish story known as “Osman’s Dream”, the young Osman was inspired to conquest by a prescient vision of empire (according to his dream, the empire is a big tree whose roots spread through three continents and whose branches cover the sky).[citation needed] Osman I extended the frontiers of Ottoman settlement toward the edge of the Byzantine Empire. He moved the Ottoman capital to Bursa, and shaped the early political development of the nation.
In this period, a formal Ottoman government was created whose institutions would change drastically over the life of the empire. The government used the legal entity known as the millet, under which religious and ethnic minorities were allowed to manage their own affairs with substantial independence from central control.
The Battle of Nicopolis in 1396.
In the century after the death of Osman I, Ottoman rule began to extend over the Eastern Mediterranean and the Balkans. The important city of Thessaloniki was captured from the Venetians in 1387. The Ottoman victory at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 effectively marked the end of Serbian power in the region, paving the way for Ottoman expansion into Europe. The Battle of Nicopolis in 1396, widely regarded as the last large-scale crusade of the Middle Ages, failed to stop the advance of the victorious Ottomans. With the extension of Ottoman dominion into the Balkans, the strategic conquest of Constantinople became a crucial objective. The Empire controlled nearly all former Byzantine lands surrounding the city, but the Byzantines were temporarily relieved when Timur invaded Anatolia in the Battle of Ankara in 1402. He took Sultan Bayezid I as a prisoner. Part of the Ottoman territories in the Balkans (such as Thessaloniki, Macedonia and Kosovo) were temporarily lost after 1402, but were later recovered by Murad II between the 1430s and 1450s.
The capture of Bayezid I threw the Turks into disorder. The state fell into a civil war that lasted from 1402 to 1413, as Bayezid’s sons fought over succession. It ended when Mehmed I emerged as the sultan and restored Ottoman power, bringing an end to the Interregnum. His grandson, Mehmed the Conqueror, reorganized the state and the military, and demonstrated his martial prowess by capturing Constantinople on 29 May 1453, at the age of 21.”
The Ottoman’s were Turkish-speaking Turks not Arabic-speaking Arabs.
Egypt in this time period:
“The Empire prospered under the rule of a line of committed and effective Sultans. Sultan Selim I (1512–1520) dramatically expanded the Empire’s eastern and southern frontiers by defeating Shah Ismail of Safavid Persia, in the Battle of Chaldiran.[24] Selim I established Ottoman rule in Egypt, and created a naval presence on the Red Sea. After this Ottoman expansion, a competition started between the Portuguese Empire and the Ottoman Empire to become the dominant power in the region.[25]”
Anatolia was ruled by Ghazi emirates:
Anatolian beyliks, Turkish beyliks or Turkmen beyliks (Turkish: Anadolu Beylikleri, Ottoman Turkish: Tevâif-i mülûk, Beylik Turkish pronunciation: [bejlik]) were small Turkish Muslim emirates or principalities governed by Beys, which were founded across Anatolia at the end of the 11th century in a first period, and more extensively during the decline of the Seljuq Sultanate of Rûm during the second half of the 13th century.
The word “beylik” denotes the territory under the jurisdiction of a Bey, roughly translated “Lord”. Aside from its Anatolian context, the term is also used with reference to the 16th century Ottoman governmental institutions in the largely autonomous regencies along the coastline of present-day Tunisia and Algeria.[1]”
I think a lot of folks need reality checks…stop trying to re-write history:
http://countrystudies.us/egypt/18.htm
“Only in the first century of Ottoman rule was the governor of Egypt able to perform his tasks without the interference of the Mamluk beys (bey was the highest rank among the Mamluks). During the latter decades of the sixteenth century and the early seventeenth century, a series of revolts by various elements of the garrison troops occurred. During these years, there was also a revival within the Mamluk military structure. By the middle of the seventeenth century, political supremacy had passed to the beys. As the historian Daniel Crecelius has written, from that point on the history of Ottoman Egypt can be explained as the struggle between the Ottomans and the Mamluks for control of the administration and, hence, the revenues of Egypt, and the competition among rival Mamluk houses for control of the beylicate. This struggle affected Egyptian history until the late eighteenth century when one Mamluk bey gained an unprecedented control over the military and political structures and ousted the Ottoman governor.”
well of course King Tut was a european… infact all of the mediterranean was too… until the damn arab horde came from the dunes and created the Ottoman empire.
the africans were still in the congo at that time
@Israel is gay.Some of these commentors are Afro-centrist!
Denial is more than just a river in AFRICA
CN
Wrong. The Falasha, i,e, Beta-Israel, “The Black Jews” are Semites by way of language. In any interpretation of this it is Afro-Asiatic not White-Semitic-Arab.
…This haplotype ‘V’ !
…not haplogroup V and as stated already; if it were this would not be the study of Y-DNA Hg E but mt-DNA Hg V.
For those who want the truth and not to re-write ‘Arab’ history red this…
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/history_in_africa/v032/32.1keita.html
Genetics, Egypt, and History:
Interpreting Geographical Patterns of Y Chromosome Variation1
S.O.Y. Keita
National Human Genome Center, Howard University
Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution
A. J. Boyce
B.
Institute of Biological Anthropology and St. John’s College
Oxford University
The term Taq comes from Thermus aquaticus, a bacterium that lives in extremely hot temperatures, and whose enzymes have proved valuable in techniques used to analyze DNA for population studies—techniques that sometimes require high temperatures. The TaqI endonuclease, an enzyme, cleaves DNA at particular points. Various molecular instruments called probes, that use endonucleases, can be constructed to detect variations in segments of DNA. Such variations are also called polymorphisms, more specifically restriction fragment length polymorphisms or RFLPs. The TaqI probes were found to detect a subset of five fragments that varied between individuals and populations and was on the non-recombining part of the Y chromosome, and therefore strictly paternally inherited (Ngo et al. 1986; Lucotte and Mercier 2003a).
The five fragments have different forms found to exist in different combinations. The different combinations for a stretch of DNA are called haplotypes, and can be conceptualized as a unit that is inherited. Each haplotype is given a numerical name. It should be noted that the same combination of TaqI fragments have occasionally arisen independently in different geographical populations. This is a case of parallel microevolution or independent mutation and can usually be distinguished from situations where migration and admixture have transferred a specific variant to another population.
…The most common variants found in different studies of Egypt collectively are, in descending frequency, V, XI, IV, VII, VIII, XV, and XII (Table 2A). The first three of these are of greatest interest due to their frequencies. Haplotype V, sometimes called “Arabic” (Lucotte and Mercier 2003a) declines from lower Egypt (north) at 51.9%, to upper Egypt (24.2%), and to lower Nubia (south) at 17.4%. Haplotypes VII, VIII, XV, and XII also decline (Table 1). In contrast, haplotypes XI and IV, called “southern,” with IV being labeled “sub-Saharan,” have their lowest frequencies in lower Egypt (XI-11.7%; IV-1.2%), but increase in upper Egypt (XI-28.8%; IV-27.3%); and lower Nubia (XI-30.4%; IV-39.1%); there is no statistically significant difference between the latter [End Page 223] two regions (Lucotte and Mercier 2003a). Haplotypes VII and VIII are most prevalent in the Near East, and XII and XV in Europe.
It is important to address the appellation of “Arabic” for haplotype V, due to names being interpreted as indicators of origins, and the inconsistencies found in the literature. This variant is found in very high frequencies [End Page 224] in supra-Saharan countries and Mauretania (collective average 55.0%), and in Ethiopia (average 45.8%) (Table 2A). In specific groups its highest prevalence is in samples from Moroccan Amazigh (Berbers) (68.9%) and Ethiopian Falasha (60.5%). Its frequency is CONSIDERABLY LESS IN THE NEAR EAST, and DECREASES FROM WEST LEBANON (Lebanon, 16.7%) to east (Iraq, 7.2%) (Table 2A). The LABEL “ARABIC” for V is therefore MISLEADING because it suggests a Near Eastern origin. In fact THIS VARIANT has been called “AFRICAN” (Lucotte et al. 1993:839, Lucotte et al. 1996:469), and “Berberian” (Lucotte et al. 2001:887).
Now, exactly what is it about this study that I have quoted verbatim that I misunderstand and have not re-interpreted, unlike yourself?
I am not TRYING ANYTHING! If I were trying I would not stop until this blog is closed!
BTW: I am setting up a new forum at Zetaboards if you want to have a place to post relevant information and not go on with your mantra : Whitesemiticarab…
http://s4.zetaboards.com/Afro_Asian_mt_DNA/forum/3760613/
the Skeptic
I can NOT get you to comprehend even what you copy/paste – that dat you presented shows as you move from North Egypt , south to Nubia, Sudan, Ethiopia – Arab Semitic White influence decreases. Almost all the peoples/countries are Arabs, Arab influenced – as you see by the haplotype V marker – the exception – Falasha (Black Ethiopian Jews – shows haplomarker V(really, Semitic White haplomarker – occurs in all Semitic peoples, and, most mixed with Semitic heritage – from Jewish influence), and, Jews – Arabs and Jews are Semitic White. For some reason, you want to over look these very simple facts BECAUSE THEY PROVE THE ANCIENT AND MODERN EGYPTIANS WERE ARAB SEMITIC WHITE, NOT, THE BLACK NUBIANS/ SUDANESE/ KEMITIANS. yOUR VERY OWN DATA BACKS THIS, DO TRY AGAIN.
CN
It is more than certain you see what you want to see.
I am also certain individuals who can read English will fully grasp the generic use of “Arabic” in a language and cultural context versus ethnic Arab in terms of race.
It is unnecessary to continue to claim that the haplotype V in the study is the Y-DNA Haplogroup V because it does not exist. The study was of the Y-DNA of haplotype V, i.e., Y-DNA E, specifically PN2 and African YAP.
Again….
Table 2b : : TaqI p49a,f Y-chromosome haplotype frequencies in more restricted populations from Horn, supra-Saharan Africa, and Near Eastern origin, based on published data:
Falasha (38), (V 60.5)
Ethiopians, non-Falasha (104), V 40.4
Berbers (Morocco) (74), V 68.9
“Sephardic” Jews (381), V 18.6
“Oriental” Jews (56), V 7.4
“Near Eastern” Jews (27), V 7.4
“Ashkenazi Jews (256), V 3.1
If the study was Y-DNA haplogroup V then…
“It is found with particularly high concentrations in the Saami People of northern Scandinavia, as well as the Basque people (10.4%) [1]and somewhat higher among the isolated Pasiegos in nearby Cantabria. It also is found in particularly high concentrations (16.3%) among the Berbers of Matmata, Tunisia.[3] The highest levels are in Scandinavian and Western and North African populations. It is spread at varying low levels across Europe and smaller portions of West and Central Asia.” And that has what to do with White-Semitic-Arabs?
The study quoted by Matilda is:
American Journal of Human Biology 17:559-567 (2005)
“History of the interpretation of the Pattern of p49a.f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt: A Consideration of Multiple Lines of Evidence. S.O.Y. Keita, National Human Genome Center at Howard University, and Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20060
Multiple excerpts:
http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita6.pdf
“Some TaqI 49 a,f variants have multiple associations; for example VIII is affiliated with several lineages (Al-Zahery, 2003). So far research indicates that haplotype V in Africa is associated with the M35/215 (or 215/M35) subclade, **as is XI**, and IV with the M2/PN1/M180 lineage, both of the YAP/M145/M213 cluster. These lineages that in Africa that affiliate with haplotypes V, XI, and IV (called “sub-Saharan”), are joined by a transition mutation: most notably the PN2 transition…unites two high frequency subclades, defined by M2/PN1/M180 mutations in sub-Saharan Africa, and M35/215 in north and east Africa…”
Underhill et al., 2001, p.50; see also Cruciani et al., 2002.”
Suddenly sub-Saharan Africans are restricted to haplogroups? Really?
http://www.genetics.org/content/156/2/799.full
“An important question in the ongoing debate on the origin of Homo sapiens is whether modern human populations issued from a single lineage or whether several, independently evolving lineages contributed to their genetic makeup.
…We analyzed haplotypes composed of 35 polymorphisms from a segment of the dystrophin gene.
…We find that the bulk of a worldwide sample of 868 chromosomes represents haplotypes shared by different continental groups. The remaining chromosomes carry haplotypes specific for the continents or for local populations.
…The haplotypes specific for non-Africans can be derived from the most frequent ones through simple recombination or a mutation.
…In contrast, chromosomes specific for sub-Saharan Africans represent a distinct group, as shown by principal component analysis, maximum likelihood tree, structural comparison, and summary statistics. We propose that African chromosomes descend from at least two lineages that have been evolving separately for a period of time. One of them underwent range expansion colonizing different continents, including Africa, where it mixed with another, local lineage represented today by a large fraction of African-specific haplotypes.
…Genetic admixture involving archaic lineages appears therefore to have occurred within Africa rather than outside this continent, explaining greater diversity of sub-Saharan populations observed in a variety of genetic systems.”
Y-DNA Hg E-M81:
“E1b1b1b1 (E-M81), formerly E1b1b1b, E3b1b, and E3b2, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in the Maghreb, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in the area of North Africa 5,600 years ago.[2][24]
…This haplogroup reaches a mean frequency of 42% in North Africa, decreasing in frequency from approximately 80% or more in some Moroccan Berber populations, including Saharawis, to approximately 10% to the east of this range in Egypt.[24][25][26]
Because of its prevalence among these groups and also others such as Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle and other Berber groups, it is sometimes referred to as a genetic “Berber marker”.
Pereira et al. (2010) report high levels amongst Tuareg in two Saharan populations – 77.8% near Gorom-Gorom, in Burkina Faso, and 81.8% from Gosi in Mali. There was a much lower frequency of 11.1% in the vicinity of Tanut in the Republic of Niger.
E-M81 is also quite common among North African Arabic-speaking groups. It is generally found at frequencies around 45% in coastal cities of the Maghreb (Oran, Tunis, Tizi Ouzou, Algiers).[27]
Okay? Arabic speaking groups not ethnic White-Semitic-Arabs. There is a difference.
By the way, how long have ‘Egyptians’ been speaking Afro-Asiatic languages? When did Arabic as a language reach its peak world-wide? If the ‘Egyptians’ were Arabic speaking peoples in say 8,000 BC why is this not evident in the texts left by the scribes?
Do you want to know why the Arabic language is so important to Arabs?
If I am an ‘African’ with an Arabic name writing in Arabic who will think I am an ‘African’ and not an Arab? That was the cause of the African loss of autonomy – language and political Islam for purposes of trade!
You think if you say long enough you will re-write the history of Arabs?
the Skeptic
Sorry, typos. Are you even READING/comprehending the data you are copying/pasting? It backs what I said – First – the peoples listed there are MOSTLY Arabs, or, MIXED Arab/Black heritage – AGAIN – Lower Egypt is NORTHERN Egypt, Upper Egypt is SOUTHERN Egypt. NO WHERE in your data, does the word Black show up – only SUB Saharan – Mathilda actually does a good job of explaining Haplomarker V – Arab(Va) and, Berber(Vb) – MOTE – Berbers are MIXED – generally, mostly Arab Semitic White/ Black/ Indo European Aryan: http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/the-antiquity-of-north-africa-eurasian-origin-mt-dna/ White/Jewish Semitic White White.
Pharaoh
R1b1 originates in the Middle East.
Bogus, say researchers who worked King Tut’s genome
Carsten Pusch, a geneticist at Germany’s University of Tubingen who was part of the team that unraveled Tut’s DNA from samples taken from his mummy and mummies of his family members, said that iGENEA’s claims are “simply impossible.”
Pusch’s team used snippets of Y-chromosome (the sex chromosome found only in males) DNA to link King Tut to his closest relatives, identifying his mother and father. But they didn’t publish the full genetic data that would allow genomics companies like iGENEA to link more than half of the men in Western Europe to the Tutankhamen lineage. iGENEA’s claims are based on what they say are genetic markers that appeared on a computer screen during a Discovery Channel special on the famous pharaoh’s genetic lineage.
Pusch said: “It appears that they (iGENEA) try to better sell their DNA testing kit by using the media attention connected to King Tut.”
http://allaboutegypt.org/2011/08/caucausian-dna-on-tutankhamun-swiss-scientists-say/
Not over yet, but soon…DNA Fingerprinting
Guys, King Tut was indeed Western European (White) therefore the debate is OVER! Check this out: http://www.eutimes.net/2011/08/half-of-european-men-share-king-tuts-dna/
CN
You wrote…
“TRANWSLATION – – the further North youy go in Egypt, the higher tghe Arab Semitic White piopulation.
…Haplomarker V is found in Black Ethiopian Jews BECAUSE Jews mixed with them.
…As I mentioned earlier, the Northern 1/3 of Ethiopia, is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE. BERBERS and MOORS are generally People of MAHORITY Arab Semitic White heritage -, with 8-15% Black heritage, some small amounts of Indo European Aryan White and Jewish Semitic White heritage.
…It is well known Arabs had many WIVES from their Black Nubian SLAVE WOMEN who bore them children accepted into their royal kingdoms, as well as RAPES in bidirectional wars between Arabs and Blacks – the Ethiopian wars bein a major one.Your quotes in many parts, contradicts it self. YOUR favorite – Mathilda – actually did a good job here:http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/caucasian-africans/
Try that again…article is not referring to NUBIANS..
“…Haplomarker V is found in Black Ethiopian Jews BECAUSE Jews mixed with them.”
Table 2b : : TaqI p49a,f Y-chromosome haplotype frequencies in more restricted populations from Horn, supra-Saharan Africa, and Near Eastern origin, based on published data:
Falasha (38), (V 60.5)
Ethiopians, non-Falasha (104), V 40.4
Berbers (Morocco) (74), V 68.9
“Sephardic” Jews (381), V 18.6
“Oriental” Jews (56), V 7.4
“Near Eastern” Jews (27), V 7.4
“Ashkenazi Jews (256), V 3.1
Haplotype V is a “Jewish” marker? So, where in this “Jewish” population is the White-Semitic-Arab?
Oh, that’s right…Arabs and Jews are the same ethnicity!
——-
What is haplotype V in the study …that Matilda quoted….
American Journal of Human Biology 17:559-567 (2005)
“History of the interpretation of the Pattern of p49a.f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt: A Consideration of Multiple Lines of Evidence. S.O.Y. Keita, National Human Genome Center at Howard University, and Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20060
Multiple excerpts: http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita6.pdf
?
“Some TaqI 49 a,f variants have multiple associations; for example VIII is affiliated with several lineages (Al-Zahery, 2003). So far research indicates that haplotype V in Africa is associated with the M35/215 (or 215/M35) subclade, **as is XI**, and IV with the M2/PN1/M180 lineage, both of the YAP/M145/M213 cluster. These lineages that in Africa that affiliate with haplotypes V, XI, and IV (called “sub-Saharan”), are joined by a transition mutation: most notably the PN2 transition…unites two high frequency subclades, defined by M2/PN1/M180 mutations in sub-Saharan Africa, and M35/215 in north and east Africa…”
Underhill et al., 2001, p.50; see also Cruciani et al., 2002.”
PN2 Transition:
“…the Y-chromosome clade defined by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35, PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of phenotypically defined races and true breeding populations across a great geographical expanse.
…African peoples with a range of skin colors, hair forms and physiognomies have substantial percentages of males whose Y chromosomes form closely related clades with each other..” (S O Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al. “Conceptualizing human variation,” Nature Genetics 36, S17 – S20 (2004)
What are the racial/ethnic presumptions of the PN2 Transition?
“.. there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being ‘‘racially’’ different, with ‘‘racially’’ implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35 and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant African populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions..”
Uh, Joe, white people did not invent ships, or plumbing or houses or any of the pillars of civilization. If you knew your peoples history your post wouldnt have read as pathetic, but apparently you dont and it did.
DNA “findings” are hearsay. I’ll rely on the physical evidence already on exhibit. Were debating a DNA specimen that is unable to be checked against these “findings”
And yes Joe, “blacks” were here before America was founded and you asked what happened to them. Were still here. Most of us call ourselves black but were still here
You call those indigenous Ameri-Indians black people?They sure don’t look like black Africans to me!I know that my ancestors came on slave ships from the west coast of Africa,probably along the Ivory coast.I will never know and do not want to know.Who do you think built those big ships that the European explorers sailed around the world in?I am assuming that from these conversations that you are a black American man?I am.I am watching Sean Hanity on Fox News interviewing Sara Palin.
the Skeptic
FROM YOUR SOURCE – QUOTE,“Haplotype V, called “Arabic” by Lucotte and Mercier (2003a), declines from lower Egypt (north) to lower Nubia (south), as do VII, VIII, XV, and XII (Table 1). Given the historical nature of the presentation of Lucotte and Mercier (2003a), the term “Arabic” suggests a southwest Asian origin for V. In contrast, haplotypes XI and IV, called “southern,” with IV labeled “sub-Saharan,” have their lowest frequencies in lower (northern Egypt), but increase in upper (southern) Egypt and lower Nubia; there is no statistically significant difference in frequencies between the latter two regions for the haplotypes studies (Lucotte and Mercier 2003a).”
“Haplotype V is found in very high frequencies in supra-Saharan counties and Mauretania (collective average, 55.0%) and in Ethiopia (average, 45.8% for reported groups). Its highest prevalence to date is in samples from specific populations: Ethiopian Falasha (60.5%) and Moroccan Berbers (68.9%). Haplotype V’s frequency is considerably lower in the Near East, and decreases from west (Lebanon, 16.7%) to east (Iraq, 7.2%) (Table 2a). The appellation “Arabic” for V is therefore misleading, because it suggests an origin external to Africa that is not supported by the evidence. In fact, this variant was called African by Lucotte et a. (1993, p. 839; 1996, p. 469), as well as “Berberian” (Lucotte et al. 2001, p. 87). Significantly, it was convincingly argued by these same researchers and their associates that because the Falasha (the “black Jews” of Ethiopia) have such a high frequenc of V and XI and none (yet found) of VII and VIII, this shows them to be “clearly of African origin” and to have adopted Judaism (Lucotte and Smets, 1999). This is in contrast to their being the descendants of males from immigrant Near Eastern Jewish communities.” TRANWSLATION – – the further North youy go in Egypt, the higher tghe Arab Semitic White piopulation. Haplomarker V is found in Black Ethiopian Jews BECAUSE Jews mixed with them. As I mentioned earlier, the Northern 1/3 of Ethiopia, is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE. BERBERS and MOORS are generally People of MAHORITY Arab Semitic White heritage -, with 8-15% Black heritage, some small amounts of Indo European Aryan White and Jewish Semitic White heritage. It is well known Arabs had many wives from their Black Nubian slave women who bore them children accepted into their royal kingdoms, as well as rapes in bidirectional wars between Arabs and Blacks – the Ethiopian wars bein a major one.Your quotes in many parts, contradicts it self. YOUR favorite – Mathilda – actually did a good job here:http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/caucasian-africans/
To summarize, the closer a person gets to SUB SAHARA Africa, the greater the mixes, Arab/Black in particular – AGAIN, produce a study that shows Haplotype V occurs in Blacks, NOT mixed peoples as your study shows.
It only proves that Jews are dumber than Niggers.
Part III :
American Journal of Human Biology 17:559-567 (2005)
“History of the interpretation of the Pattern of p49a.f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt: A Consideration of Multiple Lines of Evidence. S.O.Y. Keita, National Human Genome Center at Howard University, and Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20060
Multiple excerpts: http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita6.pdf
Table 1 Summary of most common p49a.f Taq I Y-chromosome haplotypes in Egyptian regions (Lucotte and Mercier (2002):
Lower Egypt (162), IV 1.2, V 51.9, XI 11.7, VII 8.6, VIII 10.5, XI 3.7, XV 6.8.
Upper Egypt (66), IV 27.3, V 24.2, XI 28.8, VII 4.6, VIII 3.0, XI 0.0, XV 6.1.
Lower Nubia (46), IV 39.1, V 17.4, XI 30.4, VII 2.2, VIII 2.2, XI 0.0, XV 0.0.
“Given these findings, it is more accurate to call V “Horn – supra-Saharan African” (or simply African). Not “Arabic;” as it is indigenous to Africa. The first speakers of Arabic, a Semitic language, came into Africa from the Near East. Using the same logic as applied to the Falasha, supra-Saharan Africans are primarily Arabic-speakers due to language shift, and not settler colonization, since high frequencies of VII and VIII collectively characterize peoples of the Near East, and Jews also (Table 2A, B) (Lucotte and Mercier, 2003b; al-Zahery et al. 2003; Lucottte et al., 1993). It is important to establish the biogeographical origin of V for the populations in this discussion.”
“There is further Y-chromosome evidence from a phylogeographic perspective for the biohistorical Africanity of haplotype V. Although unfortunately not assessed by Lucotte and Mercier (2003a), biallelic markers define clades (Hammer and Zegura, 2002) that can be associated with the TaqI p49a,f variants (e.g., al-Zahery et al., 2003; Semino, personal communication). These markers are found on the nonrecombining portion of the Y-chromosome, and transmitted through male lineages. Haplotype V is associated with the M35/215 (or 215/M35) subclade, as is XI (in Africa), and IV with the M2/PN1/M180 lineage, both of the YAP/M145/M213 cluster. These lineages that in Africa subsume haplotypes V, XI, and IV are joined by a transition mutation: “Most notably the PN2 transition…unites two high frequency subclades, defined by M2/PN1/M180 mutations in sub-Saharan Africa, and M35/215 in north and east Africa (Underhill et al., 2001, p. 50; see also Cruciani et al., 2002). It is of great interest that the PN2 clade or family indicates that numerous African populations with diverse morphologies (skin colors, physiognomies, body builds, and hair forms) share ancient common male ancestry with each other, before they share ancestry with groups from other regions who are grossly more similar anatomically.” [My insert: ‘Caucasian affinities’]
“The haplotype V and XI data can be related to the spatial range of the Afroasiatic linguistic phylum, which a cautious interpretation of the evidence suggests most likely originated in, and had its primary history in, Africa; only one member (Semitic) is found in southwest Asia (the Near East) (Bender, 1975; Greenberg, 1966, 1973; Fleming, 1974; Diakonoff, 1981, 1998; Ruhlen, 1987; Blench, 1993; Nichols, 1997; Ehret, 1984, 1995, 2000). The spatio-temporal interpretation by Underhill et al. (2001 p. 51) of the PN2/M35 lineage corresponds to the core range of Afroasiatic (East Africa north to Egypt and west to Mauretania): “We suggest that a population with this subclade of the African YAP/M145/M213/PN2 cluster expanded into the southern and the eastern Mediterranean at the end of the Pleistocene.” (‘Southern’ here refers to northern Africa.) Also, “a Mesolithic population carrying Group III lineages with M35/M215 mutation expanded northwards from sub-Saharan to north Africa and the Levant” (Underhill et al., 2001, p. 55; see also Bosch et al., 2001; Bar-Yosef, 1987).
“The major interest here is in assessing the data in order to understand the likely original frequencies, or those at different time depths, in order to understand different levels of history, to borrow a concept from Braudel (1982). It was found that the ancestral state of the M35 (or 215/M35) subclade is found only in East Africa, including the Horn. The major downstream mutations within this subclade are M78 (found in the Horn, Egypt, and Maghreb) and M81 (found in the Maghreb, predominantly among Amazigh (Berber) speakers). M78 was also found in the Levant and the Aegean/Balkan region, and over time, variation in this lineage has emerged as indicated by other markers; it is not clear how much of this latter variation may have emerged before the lineage went with migrants from Africa.
“Notably, no artistic or textual evidence indicates that Egyptian or Nubian women for a significant part of the armies of their societies (Baines, personal communition) and furthermore, even if they did, it is not likely that they would have allowed themselves to be impregnated by enemies to the degree that would account for the observed patterns. Nor can it be assumed that they would have left their children in foreign counties. There is also no evidence that any women accompanying male armies would have remained in the foreign territories to make genetic contributions.”
Part II :
American Journal of Human Biology 17:559-567 (2005)
“History of the interpretation of the Pattern of p49a.f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt: A Consideration of Multiple Lines of Evidence. S.O.Y. Keita, National Human Genome Center at Howard University, and Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20060
Multiple excerpts: http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita6.pdf
Table 2b : : TaqI p49a,f Y-chromosome haplotype frequencies in more restricted populations from Horn, supra-Saharan Africa, and Near Eastern origin, based on published data:
Falasha (38), IV 0.0, (V 60.5), XI 26.3, VII 0.0, VIII 0.0, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
Ethiopians, non-Falasha (104), IV 0.0, (V 40.4), XI 25.9, VII 0.0, VIII 23.1, XI 00, XV 0.0.
Berbers (Morocco) (74), IV 1.4, (V 68.9), XI 2.8, VII 1.4, VIII 6.8, XII 4.1, XV 0.0.
“Sephardic” Jews (381), IV 8.4, (V 18.6), XI 6.8, VII 19.9, VIII 34.1, XII 4.2, XV 2.1.
“Oriental” Jews (56), IV 1.8, (V 7.4), XI 0.0, VII 7.1, VIII 78.6, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
“Near Eastern” Jews (27), IV 0.0, (V 7.4), XI 0.0, VII 7.4, VIII 85.1, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
“Ashkenazi Jews (256), IV 0.0, (V 3.1), XI 15.2, VII 22.7, VIII 24.6, XII 9.0, XV 10.9.
“The use of historical data to explain a genetic pattern in the linear space of the Nile Valley was undertaken by Lucotte and Mercier (2003a), who suggested that biodirectional north-south clinal variation in Egypt for the p49a,f TaqI Y restricted fragment length polymorphism (RFLP) haplotypes V, XI, and IV (Table 1) is likely primarily “related” to specific military campaigns during and after the Middle Kingdom, as also suggested by Krings et al. (1999) for patterns of mtDNA variants. The events suggested to have brought together northern and southern populations having different Y genetic profiles for these variants are 1) the Egyptian campaigns against and/or colonization of lower Nubia during the Middle and New Kingdoms (respectively, primarily Dynasties XII (ca. 1991-1785 BC, and XVIII, beginning ca. 1490 BC), and 2) the Kushite conquest of Egypt, which created Dynasty XXV (ca. 730-655 BC). Migration events were described for other detected variants having low frequency; the presence of haplotypes XII and XV in Egypt, found at their greatest frequencies in Europe (Lucotte and Loriat, 1999), was associated with interactions during later periods.”
“Haplotype V, called “Arabic” by Lucotte and Mercier (2003a), declines from lower Egypt (north) to lower Nubia (south), as do VII, VIII, XV, and XII (Table 1). Given the historical nature of the presentation of Lucotte and Mercier (2003a), the term “Arabic” suggests a southwest Asian origin for V. In contrast, haplotypes XI and IV, called “southern,” with IV labeled “sub-Saharan,” have their lowest frequencies in lower (northern Egypt), but increase in upper (southern) Egypt and lower Nubia; there is no statistically significant difference in frequencies between the latter two regions for the haplotypes studies (Lucotte and Mercier 2003a).”
“Haplotype V is found in very high frequencies in supra-Saharan counties and Mauretania (collective average, 55.0%) and in Ethiopia (average, 45.8% for reported groups). Its highest prevalence to date is in samples from specific populations: Ethiopian Falasha (60.5%) and Moroccan Berbers (68.9%). Haplotype V’s frequency is considerably lower in the Near East, and decreases from west (Lebanon, 16.7%) to east (Iraq, 7.2%) (Table 2a). The appellation “Arabic” for V is therefore misleading, because it suggests an origin external to Africa that is not supported by the evidence. In fact, this variant was called African by Lucotte et a. (1993, p. 839; 1996, p. 469), as well as “Berberian” (Lucotte et al. 2001, p. 87). Significantly, it was convincingly argued by these same researchers and their associates that because the Falasha (the “black Jews” of Ethiopia) have such a high frequenc of V and XI and none (yet found) of VII and VIII, this shows them to be “clearly of African origin” and to have adopted Judaism (Lucotte and Smets, 1999). This is in contrast to their being the descendants of males from immigrant Near Eastern Jewish communities.”
CN
I think you need to read what is not White-Semitic-Arab in context to haplotype V (ht V):
Part I :
American Journal of Human Biology 17:559-567 (2005)
“History of the interpretation of the Pattern of p49a.f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt: A Consideration of Multiple Lines of Evidence. S.O.Y. Keita, National Human Genome Center at Howard University, and Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20060
Multiple excerpts: http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita6.pdf
Table 1 Summary of most common p49a.f Taq I Y-chromosome haplotypes in Egyptian regions (Lucotte and Mercier (2002):
Lower Egypt (162), IV 1.2, V 51.9, XI 11.7, VII 8.6, VIII 10.5, XI 3.7, XV 6.8.
Upper Egypt (66), IV 27.3, V 24.2, XI 28.8, VII 4.6, VIII 3.0, XI 0.0, XV 6.1.
Lower Nubia (46), IV 39.1, V 17.4, XI 30.4, VII 2.2, VIII 2.2, XI 0.0, XV 0.0.
Table 2a : Frequencies of p49a,f TaqI Y-chromosome haplotypes in selected African and Near Eastern countries, based on published data:
Egypt (274), IV 13.9, (V 39.4), XI 18.9, VII 6.6, VIII 7.3, XII 2.2, XV 5.5.
Lebanon (54), IV 3.7, (V 16.7), XI 7.4, VII 24.4, VIII 31.5, XII 5.6, XV 1.9.
Palestine (69), IV 1.4, (V 15.9), XI 5.8, VII 13.0, VIII 46.4, XII 0.0, XV 4.3.
Iraq (139), IV 1.4, (V 7.2), XI 6.4, VII 20.1, VII 36.0, XII 1.4, XV 0.7.
Egypt (52), IV 7.7, (V 40.4), XI 21.2, VII 9.6, VIII 7.7, XII 3.8, XV 1.9.
Libya (38), IV 7.9, (V 44.7), XI 10.5, VII 0.0, VIII 5.3, XII 13.2, XV 0.0.
Algeria (141), IV 8.5, V 56.7, XI 5.0, VII 1.4, VIII 7.1, XII 4.2, XV 5.0.
Tunisia (73), IV 0.0, (V 53.4), XI 5.5, VII 4.1, VIII 2.7, XII 26.0, XV 2.7.
Mauretania (25), IV 8.0, V 44.0, XI 8.0, VII 0.0, VIII 4.0, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
Supra-Saharan (composite) (505), IV 4.4, (V 55.0), XI 7.7, VII 3.2, VIII 6.3, XII 7.1, XV 4.2.
Ethiopia (composite) (142), IV 0.0, (V 45.8), XI 26.1, VII 0.0, VIII 16.9, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
Table 2b : : TaqI p49a,f Y-chromosome haplotype frequencies in more restricted populations from Horn, supra-Saharan Africa, and Near Eastern origin, based on published data:
Falasha (38), IV 0.0, (V 60.5), XI 26.3, VII 0.0, VIII 0.0, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
Ethiopians, non-Falasha (104), IV 0.0, (V 40.4), XI 25.9, VII 0.0, VIII 23.1, XI 00, XV 0.0.
Berbers (Morocco) (74), IV 1.4, (V 68.9), XI 2.8, VII 1.4, VIII 6.8, XII 4.1, XV 0.0.
“Sephardic” Jews (381), IV 8.4, (V 18.6), XI 6.8, VII 19.9, VIII 34.1, XII 4.2, XV 2.1.
“Oriental” Jews (56), IV 1.8, (V 7.4), XI 0.0, VII 7.1, VIII 78.6, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
“Near Eastern” Jews (27), IV 0.0, (V 7.4), XI 0.0, VII 7.4, VIII 85.1, XII 0.0, XV 0.0.
“Ashkenazi Jews (256), IV 0.0, (V 3.1), XI 15.2, VII 22.7, VIII 24.6, XII 9.0, XV 10.9.
Joe
Now you are being bigoted – ALL ethnic backgrounds have contributed – there is evidence, Blacks were in America LONG before the White Europeans.The Semitic White (especially Jews) ethnic background made far more contributions to society.Arabs built the Pyramids, and , gave humankind, all the sciences while the Europeans were still living in caves. All ethnic backgrounds have made contributions.
I have heard stuff like this before and I don’t believe that black Africans were in America LONG before white Europeans.If black Africans were in America LONG before white Europeans were then what happened to them?As for white people living in caves ,looks like they made an even bigger contribution to humanity than the Arabs who were slave traders and slave owners of black Africans.It was white men and women that made most if not all of the major inventions and discoveries like electricity ,hot air balloons ,vehicles (for blacks and Muslims to drive around in)railroad trains to carry large amounts of coal to be used as engery but the Marxist president Obama wants to bankrupt them,he even said so on tv commercials.I am assuming that you are a black man that doesn’t like white Christian America.Are you up set about OUR African ancestors coming to the “new world”as slaves?I am a black American man like you.Or maybe you are a black American woman?Makes no difference to me!I am sick and tired of black Americans making statements like “chickens coming home to roost”and using the word karma and have reparations for slavery.What about the Arabs?They were far more brutal than white European slave traders and slave owners.They made slaves from white Europeans thanks to the Barbary Muslim pirates.I think that the rest of the non black population in America and perhaps the world along with the white Americans are “burnt out”from the black Americans and Obama and the CBC members and “race hustlers”playing the race card.Former Georgia congresswoman Cynthia McCormic has been in the news and was in Libya and Iran and making race card statements about how white America has a problem helping blacks with housing while say that Libya is building new homes for her black citizens.Some people are saying that our nation is in economic decline,this is very bad news for us black Americans,And there is a new saying about us black Americans that has been “floating”around.Brown is the new black.I am sure that you have heard this statement.When I visit my e-mail and see this King Tut’s DNA is W/E,I usually delete this information but I get very annoyed by statements like whites were black people because they came out of Africa,so what.I don’t give a care who ancestors came out of black Africa and all those letters and numbers concerning DNA anlyisis confuses me to the point that it doesn’t mean a thing to me!It’s to complicated for a 54 year old high school drop out to solve!I am better off living in a white Anglo-Saxon ,Judeo-Christian U.S.A. then living in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabee and 10,000% inflation.Here I am talking to you and listening to Rush Limbough talking about the “magic Negro”!
It was the white race from Europe that made the big ships that sailed around the world and colonized Africa and South America and Australia ,Hong Kong etc.What major contributions has Islam made to benefit humanity?
What difference does all this DNA make?The white race proved that they are the superior race!It was the white men and women that made the major inventions and discoveries that have benefit all of humanity.
the Skeptic
Geography, and, Genetic lesson for today – UPPER EGYPT(part of annexed Black Nubia) = Southern Egypt, LOWER EGYPT = Northern Egypt(3/4 of Egypt)= Arab Semitic White(Haplomarker V(NOT a Black, but a Semitic white,haplomarker)).
the Skeptic
Ipointed out an error to Mathilda USING HER EXPERTS – she acknowledged it – same link – Haplotype V is an ARAB, NOT Black haplomarker – only occurs in Arabs, and mixed peoples – this is in Lower Egypt (NORTHERN, NOT, Southern Egypt(part of annexed Nubia).If you had a Genetics course, Anthropology course, and NOW, Geography course – this discussion would NOT be necessary – TRANSLATION – LIKE I SAID BEFORE – NORTHERN(3/4 of Egypt) is Arab Semitic White – DO READ ALL OF MATHILDA’S COMMENTS – she hemmed, and, hawed at being WRONG – her OWN sources did her in. TRY AGAIN MY FRIEND – do research haplomarker V(Arab Semitic White, NOT, Black, haplomarker). Go back several answers – I posted the haplomarkers – look them over.
I copied this breakdown from Matilda’s Blog:
“This is more focussed on the Egyptians around Luxor, where old upper Egypt was located. A recent DNA study by Cruciani that focused on the Y chromosome E-M78 revealed that it was ’born’ in North East Africa , not East Africa as previously thought. This means, that an Egyptian with an m78 Y chromosome has had a male line ancestry reaching back to the Pleistocene inhabitants of Egypt; as far back as the Halfan culture about 24,000 years ago.
Southern Egyptians Y Chromomses are mainly native to Africa, both sub and supra Saharan. This makes a grand total of 80.3% definitively African non-Arab ancestry in the upper Egypt region. Y chromosomes possibly attributable to Arab males are very much in the minority in this area. A rough estimate (since no women invaded Egypt) is that about 5% or less of this population are from non dynastic Egyptian peoples, and not all of these would be Arabs.
:roll: Northern Egyptians are a bit more cosmopolitan in their ancestry 64.8% indigenous African. About 20% of the Y chrom0somes are near Eastern in origin, and 10.5 % are R Y chromosomes. However, some of these near eastern and European Y chromosomes show an ancient entry to Africa (G, K2, R1, R1b are 8,000 BP and older) and any historical contribution from foreign men is more likely to be in the 15% area. Divided by two (no recent female contribution to speak of). This makes non-dynastic Egyptian population around the 7% mark in Lower Egypt; and only some of this is Arab.
As for the maternal inheritance; this is more varied. From a study at Gurna (of modern upper Egyptians):
H 14.7%, I 5.9%, J 5.9%, L1a -11.7%, L1e – 5.9%, L2a – 2.9%, M1 – 17.6%, N1b – 8.8%, T – 5.9%, U – 8.8%, U3 – 2.9%, U4 – 5.9% , L3*(a) – 5.9%, L3*(b) – 2.9%, Other – 2.9%.
Of these, the L haplotypes are typically sub Saharan (23.7%), M1 and U are ancient Eurasian, present at least 30,000 years and many of the other Eurasian haplotypes have been found in 12,000 year old bones in Morocco. The N an I are possibly attributable to Arab ancestry, about 15% non-Arab in upper Egypt. But still, most of that would easily be attributable to the Neolithic input from Asia – and very little of this would be attributable to Arabs.
To sum up, there doesn’t seem to be majority ‘Arab’ genetic component to the Egyptian DNA pool, 20% absolute maximum. And a lot of the non African DNA is traceable to the Neolithic farming expansion that swept across North Africa, so it would be a lot lower in reality.
In upper Egypt a maximum of 20% of the Y chromosomes are non African (the Mt DNA has been shown to be the same since dynastic times from Nubian mummy studies).. so how these people are supposed to have magically changed appearance in the past few thousand years with so little foreign input I’d like to know.
Egyptians are Egyptian, not Arab.
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/egyptians-are-not-arabs-they-are-egyptians/
the Skeptic
Ethnically, then as NOW – Egyptians – 65% are ARAB SEMITIC WHITE, NATIONALITY – 30%- Black/Arab Semitic White/Black mixes – i.e. – the late President Anwar Sadat – Arab Semitic White father – Black(Nubian/ Sudanese/Kemetian) mother, 5% others – King Tut DNA (Caucasian – Arab Semitic White – RR1b1 originates in the ME)- NOT BLACK- ENJOY – GOOD DAY!!!
CN
Wallow in it. Drink it daily. Bathe in in it. Noting changes that one can be an Egyptian and also a Nubian, an Ethiopian, a Kushite, a Medjewi…nothing. Until a peer reviewed paper is published regarding the Y-DNA and mt-DNA of King Tukh-Ankh-Amun then all bets are off.
the Skeptic
This spin of yours, I am not sure what your point – FIRST , your evidence shows EXACTLY what I have said – the Ancient Egyptians(Arab Semitic White)traded with Black Nubians and Ethiopians. Go BACK many answers – I mentioned the Black ADVANCED Nubian tribe – Ta – Sety,taught the Ancient Egyptians the hieroglyphs. On the baboons – it proves trade went on – seems like you are attempting to claim the people of Yemen, who are Arab Semitic White, were really Black Nubians – pure gibberish at this point. I also pointed out the Ethiopian Empire spread through Egypt into Yemen around 1500 B.C. – then the Arabs drove them back to Ethiopia through Egypt – just what is your point?It is YOU who keeps trying to claim Black Nubians are the Ancient Egyptians , and/or they are the Arabs/Jews – NONE of which is true. You also keep trying to equate Black to Africans – NONE of your experts have said this – in fact THEY equate Black with SUB – SAHARAN.For some reason, you want to keep glossing over this FACT.
CN
You can call anything by other words – names – facsimiles – but the facts remain unchanged no matter how you spin YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THEM…
http://wysinger.homestead.com/kerma.html
“As a direct result of these and other excavations, Sudan is emerging as one of the most significant archaeological regions in the world. Due to the country’s superbly preserved archaeology, it has yielded evidence of early cattle domestication that pre-dates any in Egypt’s Nile Valley. What’s more, the earliest Sudanese civilisation – known as Ta-Sety (“the Land of the Archers’ Bow”) to the ancient Egyptians and Kerma to modern archaeologists – is the most ancient African urban culture outside the Land of the Pharaohs. It flourished as a totally independent political entity for at least 15 centuries – until finally, around 1500 B.C., it was conquered by the Pharaohs of Egypt.”
CN…you wrote…
“The Baboons prove nothing, other than they were gotten from trade with Ethiopia – southwest of Egypt.
:wink: Then you contradicted yourself..
…Incidentally, they could NOT totally rule out Yemen, claiming Yemen baboons would be similar to Somali baboons – no reasoning given for such a conclusion.”
The article reads :
“Only one of the two baboons was suitable for the research – the other had spent time in Thebes as an exotic pet, and so its isotopic data had been distorted. Working on the baboon discovered in the Valley of the Kings, the researchers compared the oxygen isotope values in the ancient baboons to those found in their modern day brethren. Although isotope values in baboons in Somalia, Yemen and Mozambique did not match, those in Eritrea and Eastern Ethiopia were closely matched.”
And,
“The team were unable to compare the mummies with baboons in Yemen. :oops: However, Professor Dominy reasoned that “We can tell, based on the isotopic maps of the region, that a :oops: baboon from Yemen would look an awful lot like a baboon from :oops: Somalia isotopically.” As Somalia is definitely NOT the place of origin for the baboon, this suggests that Yemen is NOT the place of origin either.”
Why do you do that? You simply gloss over the Somalia-Yemen connection and entirely miss the point.
“Tigrai/Tigray : “Tigray is bordered by Eritrea to the north (independent from Ethiopia since 1993), Gondar to the west, the Afar Region to the east, and the Amhara Region to the south and southwest.[1] Besides Mek’ele, other major cities in Tigray include Abiy Addi, Adigrat, Adwa, Aksum, Inda Selassie, Korem, Maychew, Wukro, Qwiha and Zalambessa, as well as the historically significant town of Yeha.”
8) “And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:”
Yeha Was Ab Ap-Ani SA Sia became Jehovah Nissi.
You can call anything anything and something things just do not change with time.
No more wool, dude.
the Skeptic
First, we have already gone over this same information earlier – it does NOT contradict what I have said – the skulls come from what was NUBIA(Black) – the southwestern 1/4 of Egypt was part of Nubia – annexed in 1521 B.C. – part of Upper Egypt) – skull studies from Northern Egypt(Lower Egypt) are Caucasian(Arab Semitic White) – Northern Egypt is really about 3/4 of Egypt.The Baboons prove nothing, other than they were gotten from trade with Ethiopia – southwest of Egypt. Incidentally, they could NOT totally rule out Yemen, claiming Yemen baboons would be similar to Somali baboons – no reasoning given for such a conclusion.
Cos Seven
Answers your claim – Ancient and Modern Egyptians are Arab Semitic White – NOT Black Nubians.
Csemege Csipos
80% of Arabs have dark skin, hair, and eyes – 20 % run the gamut of Northern Europeans – NO MIXING – Arabs and other Semitic Whites(Jews) have all the Caucasian haplomarkers, plus four more, no other ethnic group has – making Semites Caucasian – incidentally, Southern European generally have dark hair, skin, and eyes, often being mistaken for Arabs – Greeks, Southern Italians,Southern Germans, Turks, Iranian/Persians, Tamils – people of India. Some Arabs do have read ,and, other colored hair other than black, or, brown.Highly doubtful the Jews were the Ancient Egyptians as they were PAID workers, NOT slave – that is outdated – they also were driven out in the Exodus, NOT a small number – 600,000-800,00 – Sigmund Freud, a German Jew, came to the conclusion, they may have been Egyptians, NOT, Jews. On the Indian tribes – the only thing in the article, was the wrapping was similar to what was used in Egypt. On this, there is some weak evidence that some of the lost 12 lost tribes of Israel, were ancestors to some of the Indians in North America.Nefertiti was king Tut’s STEP MOTHER – DNA testing confirmed King Tut’s mother to be the real FULL sister of Akhenaten, his father. R1b1 originates with the the Arab, NOT, Jewish,ME. Although Queen Tiye’s hair has been shown to be blondish, and, Caucasian, her skeletal structure indicates Negroid heritage – she is believed to be mixed, Arab Semitic White, Black Nubian, and, Asian – go to the following link to see what this looks like – very beautiful: http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
Discovery of Ta-Pw-N-Netjer:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/baboon-mummy-analysis-reveals-eritrea-and-ethiopia-as-location-of-land-of-punt-1954547.html
“However, it appears that the search for Punt may have come to an end according to new research which claims to prove that it was located in Eritrea/East Ethiopia. Live baboons were among the goods that we know the Egyptians got from Punt. The research team included Professor Salima Ikram from the Egyptian Museum, Cairo, and Professor Nathaniel Dominy and graduate student Gillian Leigh Moritz, both from the University of California, Santa Cruz.
The team studied two baboon mummies in the British Museum. By analysing hairs from these baboons using oxygen isotope analysis, they were able to work out where they originated. Oxygen isotopes act as a ‘signal’ that can let scientists know where they came from. Depending on the environment an animal lived in, the ratio of different isotopes of oxygen will be different. “Oxygen tends to vary as a function of rainfall and the water composition of plants and seed,” said Professor Nathaniel Dominy of UC Santa Cruz.
Only one of the two baboons was suitable for the research – the other had spent time in Thebes as an exotic pet, and so its isotopic data had been distorted. Working on the baboon discovered in the Valley of the Kings, the researchers compared the oxygen isotope values in the ancient baboons to those found in their modern day brethren. Although isotope values in baboons in Somalia, Yemen and Mozambique did not match, those in Eritrea and Eastern Ethiopia were closely matched.
“All of our specimens in Eritrea and a certain number of our specimens from Ethiopia – that are basically due west from Eritrea – those are good matches,” said Professor Dominy.
The team were unable to compare the mummies with baboons in Yemen. However, Professor Dominy reasoned that “We can tell, based on the isotopic maps of the region, that a baboon from Yemen would look an awful lot like a baboon from Somalia isotopically.” As Somalia is definitely not the place of origin for the baboon, this suggests that Yemen is not the place of origin either.
He concluded that “We think Punt is a sort of circumscribed region that includes eastern Ethiopia and all of Eritrea.”
The team also think that they may have discovered the location of the harbour that the Egyptians would have used to export the baboons and other goods back to Egypt. Dominy points to an area just outside the modern city of Massawa: “We have a specimen from that same harbour and that specimen is a very good match to the mummy.”
Next, the team hopes to get the British Museum’s permission to take a pea-sized sample of bone from the baboon mummy and use it strontium isotope testing. This would hopefully confirm Eritrea/Eastern Ethiopia as the baboon’s origin and narrow down its location more specifically.”
What is in the dark must come to light – Bob Marley PBUH 1981
Ras Ta Amun
:roll: Kerma : http://www.theancientegyptians.com/Kerma.htm
“The development of Kerma was contemporaneous with the C-Group in Lower Nubia. While Egypt was concerning itself with the control of Lower Nubia and the C-Group, Kerma was slowly developing its trade and culture beyond this buffer zone. There were three periods of the Kerma culture – Old Kerma, Middle Kerma and Classic Kerma. By c.1650 BC, Kerma had become densely populated and controlled a centralized state stretching from at least the First to the Fourth Cataracts. It was during the mid to latter part of the Second Intermediate Period of Egypt and during the Classic Period of Kerma that saw the apex of its wealth and power. Kerma was sacked in c.1500 BC, when the whole region became part of the Egyptian New Kingdom empire.”
The sacking of of Kerma NOT WHAT YOU THINK:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article851852.ece
“They swept over the mountains, over the Nile, without limit. This is the first time we’ve got evidence. Far from Egypt being the supreme power of the Nile Valley, clearly Kush was at that time.
“Had they stayed to occupy Egypt, the Kushites might have eliminated it. That’s how close Egypt came to extinction. But the Egyptians were resilient enough to survive, and shortly afterwards inaugurated the great imperial age known as the New Kingdom. The Kushites weren’t interested in occupation. They went raiding for precious objects, a symbol of domination. They did a lot of damage.”
The inscription was found between two internal chambers in a rock-cut tomb that was covered in soot and dirt. It appeared gradually as the grime was removed.
Mr Davies said: “I thought it would be a religious text, but it turned out to be historical. Gradually, a real narrative emerged, a brand new text inscribed in red paint, reading from right to left.”
The tomb belonged to Sobeknakht, a Governor of El Kab, an important provincial capital during the latter part of the 17th Dynasty (about 1575-1550BC).
The inscription describes a ferocious invasion of Egypt by armies from Kush and its allies from the south, including the land of Punt, on the southern coast of the Red Sea. It says that vast territories were affected and describes Sobeknakht’s heroic role in organising a counter-attack.
The text takes the form of an address to the living by Sobeknakht: “Listen you, who are alive upon earth . . . Kush came . . . aroused along his length, he having stirred up the tribes of Wawat . . . the land of Punt and the Medjewi. . .” It describes the decisive role played by “the might of the great one, Nekhbet”, the vulture-goddess of El Kab, as “strong of heart against the Nubians, who were burnt through fire”, while the “chief of the nomads fell through the blast of her flame”.
This is also important since it shows that Medjewi, i.e., renamed Meroe by the Romans was also very much a force and goes back further as read 1550 BC than the texts from 800 – 350 BC .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mero%C3%AB
:roll: Read more here:
http://wysinger.homestead.com/kerma.html
“As a direct result of these and other excavations, Sudan is emerging as one of the most significant archaeological regions in the world. Due to the country’s superbly preserved archaeology, it has yielded evidence of early cattle domestication that pre-dates any in Egypt’s Nile Valley. What’s more, the earliest Sudanese civilisation – known as Ta-Sety (“the Land of the Archers’ Bow”) to the ancient Egyptians and Kerma to modern archaeologists – is the most ancient African urban culture outside the Land of the Pharaohs. It flourished as a totally independent political entity for at least 15 centuries – until finally, around 1500 B.C., it was conquered by the Pharaohs of Egypt.”
:roll: “What’s clear is that Kerma’s civilisation emerged out of an ancient pastoral culture that had flourished in that part of Sudan since at least 7000 B.C. when the first settlements were established. Nearby Kerma archaeologists have discovered one of the two oldest cemeteries ever found in Africa – dating back to 7500 B.C. – and the oldest evidence of cattle domestication ever found in Sudan or, indeed, in the Egyptian Nile Valley. Around 3000 BC a town grew up not far from the Neolithic dwellings place.”
Cos Seven
Did you read this? FYI…
ScienPapers/Ethiopian Mitochondria DNA
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TfB_Iyv8mVIJ:www.africandna.com/ScienPapers%255CEthiopian_Mitochondrial_DNA_Heritage.pdf+16189C+motif+%2B+mtdna+%2B+African&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShRD6xF78NFAa11Bj03kYsjFtsRncbUm4kwiV8wnz8mGot9PkHNgb6Q_1ha52myZzHzxoBEoX2uZKcfWlOC9V9kMOiTeS2tCul4Y2sDLdQEWPACgc6nF2gdS8NUhzmOlHr7KNkf&sig=AHIEtbQulGYe-r8u-9JtVjIY9Yv4400vRw
Excerpt: Google Books p.764 – 765 :roll:
Modern Tigrai – Ancient Kerma Mt-DNA ‘T1’ mutations plus inheritance L3e2b – 16189C:
“The Tigrai T1a sequence matches a Kerma sequence from Nubia (Krings et al. 1999), whereas the Amhara T1b sequence shows a mutation at np 16320 on top of the common founder haplotype in the Near East (Richards et al. 2000).” South Asia.
“Five of the six T2 sequences detected among Amhara and Tigrai samples shared a transition at np 16292 that is widespread in the haplogroup T context in Europe, the Near East, and North Africa. However, two Tigrai T2 sequences share a combination of four downstream HVS-I mutations that have not been reported elsewhere.”
T1. Defining mutations: 16189C (L3e2b), ), 16163G (T1), 12633A (T1 and F1b 12633T) :
This reads widespread …Europe, Near East, North Africa, which includes Sudan and Ethiopia. The North African sequences are differentiated from the European and Near Eastern sequences making them Afro-Asian as these mutations are found in a mix of haplotypes defined above. This does not make them ‘European-Caucasian’ but Africans of an evolved genotype with an essentially unchanged phenotype.
Kingdom of Axsum :
Tigrai/Tigray : “Tigray is bordered by Eritrea to the north (independent from Ethiopia since 1993), Gondar to the west, the Afar Region to the east, and the Amhara Region to the south and southwest.[1] Besides Mek’ele, other major cities in Tigray include Abiy Addi, Adigrat, Adwa, Aksum, Inda Selassie, Korem, Maychew, Wukro, Qwiha and Zalambessa, as well as the historically significant town of Yeha.” Can you say Yehawas? Yehawa? Yehava? Yehova?
Seems to me that the people the higher ups in world affairs could care least about offending are the “blacks” as they have already offended us with this “revelation” about DNA they wont allow to be peer reviewed or publicly verified against their claim. My suspicion is that they are afraid to offend the egyptian people who are politically defined as arab and not “black” or African. The DNA in my opinion actually would reveal the Ancients of Kemet to be Khoisan and or other South African rooted. THAT would shake the Arab world because as CN shows quite clearly, the Arab mind cannot accept that the ancient Egyptians were not Arab but African/Nubian/”Negroid” as all the statues ans art indicate.
Ignorance is bliss.
Tut’s daddy was Akhenaten and mom was Nefertiti. Both has parents blond/red haired.
http://www.burlingtonnews.net/redhairedrace.html
I expect haplogroup r1a or r1b for this rullin’ dynasty since red haired race belongs to Russian territory. Even ashkenazi/khazars were called “red jew” for their typical color of hair and beard.
Irony is that even american native folx are http://www.r1a.org haplogroup, so they are distant causins of slavs. http://ironlight.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/nevadas-mysterious-cave-of-the-red-haired-giants/
CN
I do appreciate the civility. Thanks. I was beginning to wonder whether you were really the moderator, after all. Thanks for showing the better side of debate.
whitemonkey
Skip the bigotry against our friend, ME people (Arabs) are Semitic, NOT, Indo European Aryan, White – R1b1 ORIGINATES in the ME. The ONLY Indo European Aryan Whites in Egypt for a very brief period, were the Greeks, Iranians/Persians, and, Turks – for thousands of years, the Arabs ruled there as TODAY – both Ancient, and, Modern Egyptians are Arabs (Semitic, NOT, Indo European Aryan Whites).
To be honest with you, you just missed target.
http://www.burlingtonnews.net/redhairedmummiesegyptbufo.html
http://www.burlingtonnews.net/redhairedrace.html
Try another shot
This part of the post is not for CN so no need to respond…
“The question of the genetic origins of ancient Egyptians, particularly those during the Dynastic period, is relevant to the current study. Modern interpretations of Egyptian state formation propose an indigenous origin of the Dynastic civilization (Hassan, 1988). Early Egyptologists considered Upper and Lower Egyptians to be genetically distinct populations, and viewed the Dynastic period as characterized by a conquest of Upper Egypt by the Lower Egyptians. More recent interpretations contend that Egyptians from the south actually expanded into the northern regions during the Dynastic state unification (Hassan, 1988; Savage, 2001), and that the Predynastic populations of Upper and Lower Egypt are morphologically distinct from one another, but not sufficiently distinct to consider either non-indigenous (Zakrzewski, 2007). The Predynastic populations studied here, from Naqada and Badari, are both Upper Egyptian samples, while the Dynastic Egyptian sample (Tarkhan) is from Lower Egypt. The Dynastic Nubian sample is from Upper Nubia (Kerma). Previous analyses of cranial variation found the Badari and Early Predynastic Egyptians to be more similar to other African groups than to Mediterranean or European populations (Keita, 1990; Zakrzewski, 2002). In addition, the Badarians have been described as near the centroid of cranial and dental variation among Predynastic and Dynastic populations studied (Irish, 2006; Zakrzewski, 2007). This suggests that, at least through the Early Dynastic period, the inhabitants of the Nile valley were a continuous population of local origin, and no major migration or replacement events occurred during this time.
Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region .”
AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007). Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–5
Really CN? Was that AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY excerpt good enough ?
Okay, here is a genetics course just copied and pasted from FTDNA.
Mt-DNA Branching Tree : L>N>M>R>U>, etc.
L – In human mitochondrial genetics, L is the mitochondrial DNA macro-haplogroup that is at the root of the human mtDNA phylogenetic tree. Defining mutations mt-DNA Hg L3: 73G, 7028T,14766T, 11719A, 16223T, 10873T, 12705T.
M – “Haplogroup M cluster has been characterized as generally of east Eurasia—a geographic region that includes south Asia, east Asia, and Australasia. One of the two deep roots of the mitochondrial tree of haplogroups found in Asia, haplogroup M dates to approximately 70,000 years ago. Interestingly, one of the sub-haplogroups of the M cluster, haplogroup M1, is found primarily in northern Africa, suggesting either a very early divergence from the root of haplogroup M or even migration back to Africa after the original dispersal into Eurasia. Future work will further document the historical distribution of this root haplogroup and closely related haplogroups within the M cluster.”
N – In human mitochondrial genetics, Haplogroup N is a human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup. An enormous haplogroup SPANNING MANY CONTINENTS, the macro-haplogroup N, like its sibling M, is a descendant of haplogroup L3. Descendents : N1’5, N2, N9, N13, N14, N21, N22, A, I, O, R, S, X, Y, W.
R – Time of origin : before 55,000 years before present. Place of origin : Near East, Ancestral haplogroup N. Defining mutations : 73, 7028, 11719, 14766
http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_U_%28mtDNA%29
U – Time of origin : 55,000 years before present. Place of origin : Western Asia, Ancestral haplogroup R. Defining mutations : 73, 7028, 11719, 12308, 14766.
pre-HV – Time of origin : 40,000 years before present. Place of origin : Western Eurasia. Ancestral haplogroup R. Defining mutations : 7028, 14766.
HV -Time of origin : 20,000 years before present. Place of origin : Western Eurasia. Ancestral haplogroup -pre-HV. Defining mutations : 7028.
H – Time of origin : unknown. Place of origin : Western Eurasia. Ancestral haplogroup – HV. Defining mutations : None, CRS is in haplogroup H.
T1 – “The International Society of Genetic Genealogy gives the following standardized description about mtDNA Haplogroup T and two of its main subclades:
“The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe.
What is the root of Hg T ?
T : Defining mutations : 709A, 1888A, 4917G, 8697A, 10463C, 13368A, 14905A, 15607G, 15928A, 16294T.
About subclade T1 they write: “The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe…and now we can add East Africa.”
Fertile Crescent Neolithic 10,000 – 6,000 ybp : “ Interestingly, DNA data indicate that while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less successful at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are found at frequencies seldom greater than 20 PERCENT in Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia,” …….and we can now add Eastern Africa.” :-D
[https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html?card=mm019]
ScienPapers/Ethiopian Mitochondria DNA
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TfB_Iyv8mVIJ:www.africandna.com/ScienPapers%255CEthiopian_Mitochondrial_DNA_Heritage.pdf+16189C+motif+%2B+mtdna+%2B+African&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShRD6xF78NFAa11Bj03kYsjFtsRncbUm4kwiV8wnz8mGot9PkHNgb6Q_1ha52myZzHzxoBEoX2uZKcfWlOC9V9kMOiTeS2tCul4Y2sDLdQEWPACgc6nF2gdS8NUhzmOlHr7KNkf&sig=AHIEtbQulGYe-r8u-9JtVjIY9Yv4400vRw
Excerpt: Google Books p.764 – 765 :roll:
Modern Tigrai – Ancient Kerma Mt-DNA ‘T1’ mutations plus inheritance L3e2b – 16189C:
“The Tigrai T1a sequence matches a Kerma sequence from Nubia (Krings et al. 1999), whereas the Amhara T1b sequence shows a mutation at np 16320 on top of the common founder haplotype in the Near East (Richards et al. 2000).” South Asia.
“Five of the six T2 sequences detected among Amhara and Tigrai samples shared a transition at np 16292 that is widespread in the haplogroup T context in Europe, the Near East, and North Africa. However, two Tigrai T2 sequences share a combination of four downstream HVS-I mutations that have not been reported elsewhere.”
T1. Defining mutations: 16189C (L3e2b), ), 16163G (T1), 12633A (T1 and F1b 12633T) :
This reads widespread …Europe, Near East, North Africa, which includes Sudan and Ethiopia. The North African sequences are differentiated from the European and Near Eastern sequences making them Afro-Asian as these mutations are found in a mix of haplotypes defined above. This does not make them ‘European-Caucasian’ but Africans of an evolved genotype with an essentially unchanged phenotype.
You could learn more so check out this for tracing back mutations to Africa.
From Africa to Eurasia to North America mt-DNA L3 > mt-DNA ‘X’:
“This Motif table is used to estimate the subclades for Haplogroup X. Exact identification requires markers in the mtDNA coding region not covered by STANDARD mtDNA HVR1 and HVR2 testing.”
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/x/default.aspx
Defining mutations mt-DNA Hg L3: 73G, 7028T,14766T, 11719A, 16223T, 10873T, 12705T.
“If you look at haplogroup N you will see that in its coding region it says L3+10873C. This means that it has all the mutations that L3 has plus a new one 10873C, thus how they know that Haplogroup N descends from L3, but it has a mutation of its own, which distinguishes it from L3. Haplogroup X says in the coding region N + 6221C + 6371T + 13966G + 14470C. This means that haplogroup X has all the mutations Haplogroup N has plus those above mentioned, in turn it would also mean that it has all the mutations haplogroup L3 has.” :oops:
If you have a problem with the conclusions that FTDNA have come up take it up with them since it’s not the only place I go to for genetic information and instruction.
This part of the post is for CN:
You said…
“You really need to take a Genetics, and, an, Anthropology course. You are NOT comprehending either your own copy/paste, nor my responses – from my answer above – QUOTE,”The macro haplogroups M and N, which are the lineages of the rest of the world outside Africa, descend from L3. L3, is where the Caucasians – Semitic(Arabs, Jews), and the Indo European Aryan Whites, as well as, other Non Black ethnic groups are descended from.”
Again, is “AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007). Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–5” good enough? Purely rhetorical…no need to respond.
8-O Too late. My eyes are wide open. I broke the spell : ‘My people suffer for lack of vision (knowledge).”
Get off the wheel. Africans evolved over time with the same genetic Asian admixture as so-called Europeans. You seem to think mt-DNA L could only be Sub-Saharan African and not North African or Northwestern African and/or Central African (Sudan)- and that is your biggest mistake. OoA Africans returning with Asian admixtures TO Africa are Afro-Asians aka Afrasians and includes Y-DNA R1*-V88 and are no-LESS African than in the ‘Out of Africa ‘ (Ooa) migration! It is enough, dude. You can call mt-DNA hg T European but with the specific mutations L3e2b – 16189C of East African Tigrai – they remain essentially non-European at the root. 8)
the Skeptic
You really need to take a Genetics, and, an, Anthropology course. You are NOT comprehending either your own copy/paste, nor my responses – from my answer above – QUOTE,”The macro haplogroups M and N, which are the lineages of the rest of the world outside Africa, descend from L3. L3, is where the Caucasians – Semitic(Arabs, Jews), and the Indo European Aryan Whites, as well as, other Non Black ethnic groups are descended from.
CN
You can make long winded posts about Mt-DNA Macro-haplogroup L but the point remains unanswered by you:
Mt-DNA R7 : 1442A, 6248C, 9051G, 9110C, 10289G, 13105G, 13830C, 16260T, 16261T, 16319A.
Mt-DNA R7 Differs from rCRS : 1442G, 6248T, 9051A, 9110T, 10298A, 13105A, 13830T, 16260C, 16261C, 16319G.
Mt-DNA Z : 152C, 6752G, 9090C, 15784C, 16185T, 16260T.
Mt-DNA Z Differs from rCRS: 152T, 6752A, 9090T, 15784T, 16185C, 16260C.
Not one is ‘Caucasian-European’.
Mt-DNA branching tree:
L → L1 → L3 → L3M L3N → R, U, etc.
So, if according to you Arabs are White-Semitic Caucasians yet not one of the two haplogroups shown above are White-Semitic-Arab markers – neither are they Caucasian markers which White-Semitic-Arabs are supposed to share! You check them against the CRS – Cambridge Reference Sequence and you will see for yourself.
U6 : 3348G, 16172C
– rCRS : 3348A, 16172T.
U6a : 7805A, 14179G, 16278T
– rCRS : 7805G, 14179A, 16278C.
U6a’b’d : 16219G
– rCRS : 16219A.
U6a1 : 14927G, 16189C
— rCRS : 14927A, 16189T.
U6a2 : 103A, 15626T, 16189C
— rCRS :
U6a3 : 15790T, 16189C
– rCRS : 103G, 15790C, 16189T.
U6a4 : 150T, 12246T, 13674C, 14215C, 15862C, 16134T
– rCRS : 150C, 12246C, etc.
U6a5 : 3591A, 7642A, 13590A, 15927A ….
U6a6 : 8407a, 8557c, 9779T, 10700G, 11734G, 13440T ….
M : 489C, 10400T, 14783C, (15043A)
U6a7 : (15043A)
– rCRS : 15043G….
Asian. Makes good work of the terms Afro-Asiatic and Afrasian and it doesn’t matter whether by back migration or not and that goes for R1b-V88 as well.
Yeah, something weird is going on. Is this simply a case of ‘political correctness’ or something more?
My non cynical side is inclined to think that they ran across something non human-alien. It sure would help explain hows and whys on Ancient Egypt. I can understand them attempting to hide that kind of fantastic information, though I disagree with with holding it – even if it were to, in worse case scenario, cause mass panic, suicide and murder. (It wouldn’t btw – the deeply religious would just blow it off and not believe it – it really wouldn’t be a big deal.)
BUT — If it turns out that this is simply a case of not wanting to offend blacks (who we all know claim they were the Egyptians), then the scientists involved should just quit the profession. They obviously have no integrity, for Science – which is SUPPOSE to be OBJECTIVE. Just imagine how much is glossed over , covered up and completely hidden because of politics. Disgusting.
” Hawass previously announced that he would not release the racial DNA results of Egyptian mummies — obviously because he feared the consequences of such a revelation. ”
It isn’t obvious to me. Can someone explain this to me? Who exactly are they worried about offending with this possible revelation?
The Egyptians? Blacks? ??
(I mark the European persuasion off the list as the possibly offended, since #1 No one cares about offending them and #2 Europeans don’t associate themselves with King Tut or the Egyptians anyway. So it must be another group of people.)
Justin
The results have NOT gone through Professional peer review – doesn’t show a cover up.
The bottom line is, they will not release King Tut’s DNA, that proves the cover up. It’s really that simple.
Paul White
King Tut appears mixed as do many people in Egypt – the MAJORITY are Arab Semitic White – 80 % have dark hair, eyes, and skin, 20% look like Northern Europeans – Southern Europeans- Cleopatra was one – Greek – look like Arabs. No one has stolen anything from Black Africa – Arab Semitic Whites were the Ancient/are the Modern Egyptians, NOT the Black Nubians. This is generally what this thread is discussing – really Western Indo European Aryan Whites have been ruled out, except for Greeks, Iranians, Turks – MOST of the time, Egypt has been ruled by Arabs, a small amount, roughly 800-700 B.C. by the Black Nubians.
The Skeptic
No need to correct me – YOUR OWN COPIED?PASTED sources tell you the Caucasian markers and their origins – problem is, you do NOT want to accept it – even from your own sources – plus the fact you keep equating Africans with Black, instead of SUB SAHARAN with Black – North Africa, West, South West Asia, Near East, Middle East is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE.
The first lineage to branch off from Mitochondrial Eve is L0. This haplogroup is found in high proportions among the San of Southern Africa, the Sandawe of East Africa. It is also found among the Mbuti people. These groups branched off early in human history and have remained relatively genetically isolated since then. Haplogroups L1, L2 and L3 are descendents of L0 and are largely confined to Africa. The macro haplogroups M and N, which are the lineages of the rest of the world outside Africa, descend from L3.
Scientists refer to L0 as the first offshoot of Mitochondrial Eve, estimated to have lived in East Africa approximately 150,000 to 170,000 years ago. Haplogroup L0 consist of five main branches (L0a, L0b, L0d, L0f, L0k). Four of them were originally classified into haplogroup L1 as L1a, L1d, L1f, and L1k.
Some scientists used to refer to L0 as an extinct haplogroup, but since then scientists have identified haplogroups L0-L6 as existing in living humans.
The formerly named L1 branches (L1d, L1k, L1a, L1f) have been re-classified into haplogroup L0 as L0d, L0k, L0a and L0f. Haplogroup L1 is believed to have first appeared in East Africa approximately 150,000 to 170,000 years ago. Haplogroup L1 is a daughter of Mitochondrial Eve like her sister haplogroup L0. L1 and sisters haplogroups L2, L3, L4, L5, and L6 are distinguished from L0 by genetic markers at 182, 1048, 4312, 6185, 11914, and 12007.
It is found most commonly in the Sub – Saharan Africa. It reaches its highest frequency in the !Kung people at 69%.
L1 has two branches- L1b and L1c. L1b is most frequent in West Africa. L1c is more common amongst the Bantu and Semi-Bantu speakers of west-central tropical Africa.
Haplogroup L0a is most prevalent in South – East African populations (25% in Mozambique). Among Guineans, it has a frequency between 1% and 5%, with the Balanta group showing increased frequency of about 11%. Haplogroup L0a has a Paleolithic time depth of about 33,000 years and likely reached Guinea between 10,000 and 4,000 years ago. It also is often seen in the Mbuti and Biaka-pygmies.
Haplogroups L0b is found mostly amongst West Africans.
Haplogroup L0f is present in relatively small frequencies in East Africa.
Haplogroups L0d and L0k are typical for Khoisan tribes in South Africa.
Indeed, not only were many women alive at the same time as Mitochondrial Eve but many of them have living descendants through their sons. While the mtDNA of these women is gone, their Nuclear genes are present in today’s population.
What distinguishes Mitochondrial Eve (and her matrilineal ancestors) from all her female contemporaries is that she has a purely matrilineal line of descent to all humans alive today, whereas all her female contemporaries with descendants alive today have at least one male in every line of descent. Because mitochondrial DNA is only passed through matrilineal descent, all humans alive today have mitochondrial DNA that is traceable back to Mitochondrial Eve.
Furthermore, it can be shown that every female contemporary of Mitochondrial Eve either has no living descendant today or is an ancestor to all living people. Starting with ‘the’ most recent common ancestor (MRCA) at around 3,000 years ago, one can trace all ancestors of the MRCA backward in time. At every ancestral generation, more and more ancestors (via both paternal and maternal lines) of MRCA are found. These ancestors are by definition also common ancestors of all living people. Eventually, there will be a point in the past where all humans can be divided into two groups: those who left no descendants today and those who are common ancestors of all living humans today. This point in time is termed the identical ancestors point and is estimated to be between 5,000 and 15,000 years ago. Since Mitochondrial Eve is estimated to have lived more than a hundred thousand years before the identical ancestors point, every woman contemporary to her is either not an ancestor of any living people, or a common ancestor of all living people.
Mitochondrial organelles, which contain mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), are passed only from mother to offspring. A comparison of DNA sequences from mtDNA in a population reveals a molecular phylogeny. Unlike mtDNA, which is outside the nucleus, genes containing nuclear DNA become recombined after being inherited from both parents, and therefore we can be statistically less certain about nuclear DNA origins than we can for mtDNA, which is only inherited from the mother. mtDNA also mutates at a higher rate compared to nuclear DNA, so it gives researchers a more useful, magnified view of the diversity present in a population, and its history.
Just as mitochondria are inherited matrilineally, Y-chromosomes are inherited patrilineally. Thus it is possible to apply the same principles outlined above to men. The common patrilineal ancestor of all humans alive today has been dubbed Y-chromosomal Adam. Importantly, the genetic evidence suggests that the most recent patriarch of all humanity is much more recent than the most recent matriarch, suggesting that ‘Adam’ and ‘Eve’ were not alive at the same time. While ‘Eve’ is believed to be alive 140,000 years ago, ‘Adam’ lived only 60,000 years ago.
So, I compared these to the Revised Cambridge Reference Sequence (rCRS):
Mt-DNA R7 : Differs from rCRS : 1442G, 6248T, 9051A, 9110T, 10298A, 13105A, 13830T, 16260C, 16261C, 16319G
Mt-DNA R7 : 1442A, 6248C, 9051G, 9110C, 10289G, 13105G, 13830C, 16260T, 16261T, 16319A
Mt-DNA Z : Differs from rCRS: 152T, 6752A, 9090T, 15784T, 16185C, 16260C
Mt-DNA Z : 152C, 6752G, 9090C, 15784C, 16185T, 16260T
Not one is ‘ethnic European’. You place great emphasis on what these haplogroups do not have in the way of so-called ‘European’ mutations, motifs, etc, but the differences are specific to the 16260 H1 which makes sense as being downstream of the mtdna branching tree:
L → L1 → L3 → L3M L3N → R, U, etc.
84,000 to 104,000 YBP – Mt-DNA L3a, L3b’f, L3c’d’j, L3e’i’k’x, L3h, M, N.
~71,000 YBP – MtDNA N – N1’5, N2, N9, N13, N14, N21, N22, A, I, O, R, S, X, Y, W.
66,000 YBP – MtDNA R- R0, R1, R2′JT, R5, R6’7, R8, R11′B, R12’21, R14, R23, R30, R31, P, U.
60,000 YBP – MtDNA M – M1, M2, M3, M4’45, M5, M6, M7, M8, M9, M10’42, M12′G, M13, M14, M15, M21, M27, M28, M29′Q, M31’32, M33, M34, M35, M36, M39, M40, M41, M44, M46, M47’50, M48, M49, M51, D.
55,000 BP – MtDNA U – U1, U5, U6, U2’3’4’7’8’9.
Who is the founder of H?
25,000-30,000 YBP – MtDNA Hv/H – H* lineages, H1, H2, H3, H4, H5’36, H6, H7, H8, H9, H10, H11, H12, H13, H14, H15, H16, H18, H19, H20, H22, H23, H24, H25, H26, H28, H29, H31, H32, H33, H34, H35, H37, H38, H39, 16129(H17+H27), 16129(H21+H30.) CRS : 16129G.
Mt-dna H* Defining mutations – A2706A, C7028C –
First occurrence of 2706A?
Khoi-San – L0d1 – 719A, 2706A, 3438A, 6266G, 13759A.
…………..U2b – 146C, 2706A, 5186t, 12106T, 13194A, 15049T.
H – 2706A, 7028C.
…………..D4f – 2706A, 4538T, 7270C, 8764A, 11255C.
That the first occurrence of 2706A is in the ‘African’ L0d1, the ‘Eurasian’ and/or ‘European’ downstream maker is next in haplotypes, U, D, and H.
7028C CRS : 7028C. This 7028C is what makes it ‘European’ but it inherited 2076A from ancient L0d1 !
In other words if the studies exclude first occurrences in ‘Africans’ whether Sub-Saharan or not no one will see the lineages of the founders or the inherited markers!
So when you look at L0d1 2706A do you see ‘African’ or ‘European.’ That is the problem with genotypes versus phenotypes. If you look at L0d1 and see an ‘African’ phenotype but at H – 2706A, and see a European phenotype, why? You can say anyone is Caucasian or European but the genetics tells the story.
This topic has given me a headache. I am done, do not call me back. I’ll say it for you-
-whitesemiticarabwhitesemiticaragwhitesemiticarab…
What was stolen out of Africa?
Niggers? no wait they were purchased fairly.
you people are a joke still trying so hard prove you devils have some claim to king tut since you have stole all of the things Africa. you peole are not from that continent and was still on you fours lining in caves and trees. you are decendant from the caveman so get over it. you have tampered with king tut so much changing his face to look white and putting your fake dna on him. this is a silly childs game for silly people making false statements on the playground. You can look at all the kings and rulers over there and see the features on thier face and see they are of african origins. So one person just have to be white.
You’re simply stupid black racist, you. Take a break and look at the Egyptian statues in Metropolitan Museum, NYC, half of them typical Europeans. The Egyptians were a mixed race, and that’s what this study shows. They share 50 percent of their genes with the Europeans, not 100, you, moron.
the Skeptic
Addendum – North Africa is ME – Arab Semitic White.
the Skeptic
YOUR source, AGAIN, QUOTE,”The old age has led to a wide distribution of the descendant subgroups that harbor specific European, northern African, Indian, Arab, northern Caucasus Mountains and the Near East clades.[1]”
The above are ALL Caucasian groups.Arab and Near East are Semitic White – the others are Indo European Aryan Whites.
AND
All eight Ethiopian U6 samples descend from the major U6a1 founder, which spread from the Near East(*** ASIN MIDDLE EAST< ARAB SEMITIC WHITE*** – my emphasis) to northwestern Africa at appreciable frequencies (Maca-Meyer et al. 2003). Their absence in Yemen suggests that these U6 lineages have likely penetrated to Ethiopia from the north rather than by the sea route from Arabia.
TRANSLATION – Arab Semitic White haplomarkers found in Ethiopians from ADMIXTURE. Guess you want to remain in self denial – back flow ALSO occured.
Traditional Mt-DNA Branching Structure:
L → L1 → L3 → L3M L3N → R, U, etc.
84,000 to 104,000 YBP – Mt-DNA L3a, L3b’f, L3c’d’j, L3e’i’k’x, L3h, M, N.
~71,000 YBP – MtDNA N – N1’5, N2, N9, N13, N14, N21, N22, A, I, O, R, S, X, Y, W.
66,000 YBP – MtDNA R- R0, R1, R2’JT, R5, R6’7, R8, R11’B, R12’21, R14, R23, R30, R31, P, U.
60,000 YBP – MtDNA M – M1, M2, M3, M4’45, M5, M6, M7, M8, M9, M10’42, M12’G, M13, M14, M15, M21, M27, M28, M29’Q, M31’32, M33, M34, M35, M36, M39, M40, M41, M44, M46, M47’50, M48, M49, M51, D.
55,000 BP – MtDNA U – U1, U5, U6, U2’3’4’7’8’9.
Who is the founder of H? Defining mutations – A2706A, C7028C –
25,000-30,000 YBP – MtDNA Hv/H – H* lineages, H1, H2, H3, H4, H5’36, H6, H7, H8, H9, H10, H11, H12, H13, H14, H15, H16, H18, H19, H20, H22, H23, H24, H25, H26, H28, H29, H31, H32, H33, H34, H35, H37, H38, H39, 16129(H17+H27), 16129(H21+H30.) CRS : 16129G.
First occurrence of 2706A? CRS : 2706A
L0d1 – 719A, 2706A, 3438A, 6266G, 13759A.
U2b – 146C, 2706A, 5186t, 12106T, 13194A, 15049T.
H – 2706A, 7028C.
D4f – 2706A, 4538T, 7270C, 8764A, 11255C.
7028C CRS : 7028C.
That the first occurrence of 2706A is in the ‘African’ L0d1, the ‘Eurasian’ and/or ‘European’ downstream maker is next in haplotypes, U, D, and H.
So when you look at L0d1 2706A do you see ‘African’ or ‘European.’ That is the problem with genotypes versus phenotypes. If you look at L0d1 and see an ‘African’ phenotype but at H – 2706A, 7028C and see a European phenotype, why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype-phenotype_distinction
“In contrast to phenotypic plasticity, the concept of genetic canalization addresses the extent to which an organism’s phenotype allows conclusions about its genotype. A phenotype is said to be canalized if mutations (changes in the genome) do not noticeably affect the physical properties of the organism. This means that a canalized phenotype may form from a large variety of different genotypes, in which case it is not possible to exactly predict the genotype from knowledge of the phenotype (i.e. the genotype-phenotype map is not invertible). If canalization is not present, small changes in the genome have an immediate effect on the phenotype that develops.”
If I pass this way again, it will be too soon.