Despite the refusal of the Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, to release any DNA results which might indicate the racial ancestry of Pharaoh Tutankhamen, the leaked results reveal that King Tut’s DNA is a 99.6 percent match with Western European Y chromosomes.
The DNA test results were inadvertently revealed on a Discovery Channel TV documentary filmed with Hawass’s permission — but it seems as if the Egyptian failed to spot the giveaway part of the documentary which revealed the test results.
Hawass previously announced that he would not release the racial DNA results of Egyptian mummies — obviously because he feared the consequences of such a revelation.
On the Discovery Channel broadcast, which can be seen on the Discovery Channel website here, or if they pull it, on YouTube here, at approximately 1:53 into the video, the camera pans over a printout of DNA test results from King Tut.
Firstly, here is a brief explanation of the results visible in the video. It is a list of what is called Short Tandem Repeats (STRs).
STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11
What does this mean? Fortunately, a genius by the name of Whit Athey provides the key to this list. Mr Athey is a retired physicist whose working career was primarily at the Food and Drug Administration where he was chief of one of the medical device labs.
Mr Athey received his doctorate in physics and biochemistry at Tufts University, and undergraduate (engineering) and masters (math) degrees at Auburn University. For several years during the 1980s, he also taught one course each semester in the electrical engineering department of the University of Maryland. Besides his interest in genetic genealogy, he is an amateur astronomer and has his own small observatory near his home in Brookeville, MD.
He also runs a very valuable website called the “Haplogroup Predictor” which allows users to input STR data and generate the haplogroup which marks those STR data.
For those who want to know what a haplogroup is, here is a “simple” definition: a haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation.
Still none the wiser? Damn these scientists.
Ok, let’s try it this way: a haplotype is a combination of multiple specific locations of a gene or DNA sequence on a chromosome.
Haplogroups are assigned letters of the alphabet, and refinements consist of additional number and letter combinations, for example R1b or R1b1. Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have different haplogroup designations. In essence, haplogroups give an inisight into ancestral origins dating back thousands of years.
By entering all the STR data inadvertently shown on the Discovery video, a 99.6 percent fit with the R1b haplogroup is revealed.
The significance is, of course, that R1b is the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Europe reaching its highest concentrations in Ireland, Scotland, western England and the European Atlantic seaboard — in other words, European through and through.
So much for the Afro-centrists and others who have derided the very obvious northwestern European appearance of a large number of the pharonic mummies. It seems like March of the Titans was right after all…
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This is a very interesting discovery. Western Europeans are the descendants of Egyptians as no doubt the migrated North after the demise of their civilisation.
The foolsishness continues.
“DNA determined King Tut is mostly Caucasian, most likely Arab Semitic White – certainly, NOT Black, although there is a minute amount that is NOT Caucasian.”
Here is the lunacy of the “white” deluded mind: Despite the abundance of sculptures and drawings depicting King Tut they insist on making renderings of what they want him to look like. And these renderings look NOTHING like any of the images of him made WHEN HE WAS ALIVE!!!
King Tut, the real one, no DNA test needed: http://www.marymeetsdolly.com/blog/uploads/king_tut.gif
“king tut”, the great white hope: http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/tutdeath1.jpg
King Tut, as a youth: (note the brown skin. Not at all european. especially western european)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nlsC-yx8EB0/ThIHq6rZWKI/AAAAAAAAABk/exw8IzUzi84/s1600/Tut.jpg
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/081217-king-tut-hmed.grid-6×2.jpg
NO RESEMBLANCE… AT ALL. And you so deluded that you will ascribe more validity to the one that you identify with because you would rather not admit to the error of your argument.
Here again is the Naga Tut:
http://www.foxnews.com/images/412419/1_61_king_tut_full.jpg
CN
Now that I have thought about this again…your statement, “DNA determined King Tut is mostly Caucasian, most likely Arab Semitic White”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29
“R1b1c (formerly R1b1a) is defined by the presence of SNP marker V88, the discovery of which was announced in 2010 by Cruciani et al.[18] Apart from individuals in southern Europe and Western Asia, the majority of R-V88 was found in northern and central Africa.
Central Africa, Shuwa Arabs, Cameroon (Nth), AA/Semitic –
R1b1c (R-V88) @ 40.0%
R1b1a2 (R-M269) @ 0.0%
R1b1c* (R-V88*) @ 40.0%
R1b1a4 (R-V69) @ 0.0%
“As can be seen in the above data table, R1b1c is found in northern Cameroon in west central Africa at a very high frequency, where it is considered to be caused by a pre-Islamic movement of people from Eurasia.[16][51]
Suggestive results from other studies which did not test for the full range of new markers discovered by Cruciani et al. have also been reported, which might be in R-V88. (CN – King Tut could be determined from this study, perhaps?)
Wood et al. reported high frequencies of men who were P25 positive and M269 negative, amongst the same north Cameroon area where Cruciani et al. reported high R-V88 levels. However they also found such cases amongst 3% (1/32) of Fante from Ghana, 9% (1/11) of Bassa from southern Cameroon, 4% (1/24) of Herero from Namibia, 5% (1/22) of Ambo from Namibia, 4% (4/92) of Egyptians, and 4% (1/28) of Tunisians.[16]
Luis et al. found the following cases of men M173 positive (R1), but negative for M73 (R1b1b1), M269 (R1b1b2), M18 (R1b1a1, a clade with V88, M18 having been discovered before V88) and M17 (R1a1a): 1 of 121 Omanis, 3 of 147 Egyptians, 2 of 14 Bantu from southern Cameroon, and 1 of 69 Hutu from Rwanda.[52]
Pereira et al. (2010) in a study of several Saharan Tuareg populations, found one third of 31 men tested from near Tanut in Niger to be in R1b.[53]
Shuwa Arabs – White-Semitic-Arabs ? NO!
http://www.prayway.com/unreached/peoplegroups2/1752.html
Your Media misconception about Black-Arabs (Afrasiatics)?
“The Baggara tribes are of Arab descent and mainly speak the Shuwa dialect of the Arabic language. They entered western Sudan between the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, and have gradually moved east and west from there. By the eighteenth century, they were concentrated primarily to the north and east of Lake Chad. Their tribes continued moving eastward until they became widely scattered across the horizontal plains of West Africa. They have intermarried with the Negroid tribes who lived close to them. This mixture of blood has given the Baggara darker skin and thicker lips than other Arabs.”
Migration from Sudan to Chad…..
“Arab ancestors emigrated from Sudan to Chad during the fourteenth century.”
http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-profile.php?peo3=11527&rog3=CD
Okay, CN, find another group of Arabs who are R1b1* and try to convince readers they are not ethnic Black-Arabs whose phenotype is not White-Semitic-Arabs?
King Tut R1b1 – Probable ancestry – Sudan/Nubia.
Thanks for the opportunity to get this into the record. Maybe there is a lot more to the Original Arab being Black than even I realized.
CN : Your job should you choose to accept it is to write a peer-reviewed paper proving no such ethnic group of Black-Arabs exists, otherwise due to Egypt’s geographic proximity to Sudan it is a higher probability and not more likely that King Tut was not European R1b1. Good luck!
The skeptic – DNA testing as shown above – R1b1 originates in the ME – Arab Semitic White – Blood Types of Ancient Egyptians are Caucasian: http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/2633522/1/
This link shows Ancient and Modern Egyptians to match more closely Arabs than the Black Nubians: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/RaceOfAncientEgypt.pdf
CN
“….“The portrayal of ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it;” and that “Ancient Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa.”
How does this statement contradict whether they were Arabs? Oh that’s right…the manta…White-Semitic-Arabs…White-Semitic-Arabs….White-Semitic-Arabs….
Get off the wheel at least you had a few moments of brief credibility.
The Skeptic
Dr. Zahi Hawass RESIGNED under fire. His statement is VERY old, BEFORE DNA testing – DNA determined King Tut is mostly Caucasian, most likely Arab Semitic White – certainly, NOT Black, although there is a minute amount that is NOT Caucasian.
CN ….you got back on wheel…
“Dr. Zahi Hawass, the current Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, has stated that “The portrayal of ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it;” and that “Ancient Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa.” [41][42] Other academics in various fields contend that Ancient Egypt was fundamentally an African civilization, with cultural and biological connections to Egypt’s African neighbors.[43] Several anthropologists who study the biological relationships of the Ancient Egyptian population call for a recognition of Africa’s genetic diversity when considering the racial identity of the Ancient Egyptians.[44]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy
I am sooooooooo done with this you keep running.
The Skeptic
Arabs are the Ancient Egyptians, NOT the Black Nubians – Arabs existed LONG before Islam (religion)/ Mohammad(Arab)- the two are NOT one and the same.
CN…you posted…
“the Skeptic
If that really is you, your tune sure has changed – you are to be commended on your research.”
I disagree with your assessment of my tune but accept your ‘hat tipping’ to my knowledge. There is no research without knowledge although one can lead to the other. I am sure the people will appreciate that Northern Sudan, Southern Egypt – your mantra of White-Semitic-Arabs was historically the Land of The Blacks, until Arab wars of the 7th Century AD/CE.
Historical truth finally gets it day after some 700 plus years of the hunter telling the story of the hunted!
CN
You posted…
“Did you see the latest news – the Black Sudanese have Southern Sudan as their OFFICIAL country,the Republic of South Sudan, separate form Arab Semitic White Northern Sudan, with a Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, a Black Muslim President?”
Actually, the President of Southern Sudan is NOT Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir but is Salva Kiir Mayardit, a Christian –
“Salva Kiir Mayardit was born in 1951 in the region of Bahr El-Ghazal, in the northwestern part of Southern Sudan. Just like his predecessor he belongs to the most important Dinka ethnic group, though of a different clan. In the late 1960s, as a youngster, he joined the rebel forces of Anyanya in the first civil war. However, after the 1972 Addis Ababa agreements he joined the ranks of the Sudanese army as a sergeant. When the southern rebellion resumed in 1983 Kiir found himself under the command of Garang and defected with him from the Sudanese army. Kiir helped found the Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLM) and led its military wing. According to critics, Kiir lacks the intellectual abilities and the political vision Garang possesses. He does not excel in oratory, but does know how to work the crowds who come to listen to him. Kiir is a devout Christian and attends services regularly at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in the Southern Sudanese capital, Juba.”
http://jerusalemcenter.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/who-is-president-salva-kiir-mayardit-of-southern-sudan-africa%E2%80%99s-newest-country/
No longer ruled by Muslim, Bashir –
“It seems like Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir accepted the new reality that is unfolding now in front of his eyes. He promised his trustees that after the disengagement he will change the constitution and Arabic will become the only official language of Sudan, and Sharia will be the only valid legal system. Bashir will also have to pay attention to the mostly student led demonstrations that are fed by events in Tunisia and Egypt.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Southern_Sudan_%282005%E2%80%932011%29
“A referendum on independence for Southern Sudan was held from January 9–15, 2011. Preliminary results released by the Southern Sudan Referendum Commission on January 30, 2011 indicate that 98% of voters selected the “separation” option, with 1% selecting “unity”.[8] Southern Sudan became an independent country on July 9, 2011, a date set by the Comprehensive Peace Agreement.[9] On 31 January 2011, Sudanese Vice-President Ali Osman Mohamed Taha stated the Sudanese Government’s “acceptance” of the referendum results. [10] On January 23, 2011, members of a steering committee on post-independence governing told reporters that upon independence the land would be named the Republic of South Sudan “out of familiarity and convenience.” Other names that had been considered were Azania, Nile Republic, Kush Republic and even Juwama, a portmanteau for Juba, Wau and Malakal, three major cities.[11]”
A Luta continua…
the Skeptic
It is unfortunate such racism on both sides exists – yes, the land belongs to the Blacks, NOT the Arabs.
the Skeptic
If that really is you, your tune sure has changed – you are to b commended on your research.
Just the facts please….
“The Kingdom of Makuria (Old Nubian: Ⲙⲁⲕⲟⲩⲣⲓⲁ, Makouria; Arabic: مقرة, al-Muqurra) was a kingdom located in what is today Northern Sudan and Southern Egypt. It was one of a group of Nubian kingdoms that emerged during the decline of the Aksumite Empire, which it had been part of from approximately 4BC to AD 950. Makuria originally covered the area along the Nile River from the Third Cataract to somewhere between the Fifth and Sixth Cataracts. It also had control over the trade routes, mines, and oases to the east and west. Its capital was Dongola (Arabic: Dunqulah), and the kingdom is sometimes known by the name of its capital.
By the end of the 6th century it had converted to Christianity, but in the 7th CENTURY EGYPT was CONQUERED by the ISLAMIC ARMIES, and Nubia was cut off from the rest of Christendom. In 651 an Arab army invaded, but it was repulsed and a treaty known as the baqt was signed creating a relative peace between the two sides that lasted until the 13th century. Makuria expanded, annexing its northern neighbour Nobatia either at the time of the Arab invasion or during the reign of King Merkurios. The period from roughly 750 to 1150 saw the kingdom stable and prosperous, in what has been called the “Golden Age”.[1] Increased aggression from Egypt, and internal discord led to the state’s collapse in the 14th century.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Makuria
CN : Now I bow out.
CN
Not me. You are getting your detractors confused. I never said Arabs were Black-Afrikans. I said that even if King Tut and Anwar Sadat had fathers who were not Black-Afrikan, Sudanese, that both had mothers who were and culturally both men by matrilineal rule would be Afrikan.
Yes, I am quite aware of the hard fought status of the Afrikan refusing to become culturally Arab-ized! I am watching with all due caution the boundary lines at Abyei (where there is some oil)as the ethnic Arabs try to claim the land as theirs which if successful would push the the Dinka Ngok further south continuing the land-grab of the Arab beginning at Aswan (As Sua An)in the 7th Century Badr Treaty!
“The Mukurra kingdom was attacked by Arabs in 641, and in the peace treaty of 651 the Nubians agreed to tolerate a Muslim mosque and provide 360 slaves annually to the Muslim imam in exchange for some supplies not mentioned in the treaty, which enabled Nubians to co-exist next to Muslim Egypt peacefully for six centuries. The Nubian church was greatly strengthened when Merkurios became king in 697. When Copts were persecuted in Egypt about 745, Nubian king Kiriakos demanded that imprisoned Alexandrian patriarch Khael be released and, according to a Christian author, invaded. In 836 Nubians made a treaty with the caliph of Baghdad, and they occupied southern Egypt in 962. At the end of the 10th century the Ethiopian king, because of a conflict with the patriarch of Alexandria, asked Nubian king George II to send a bishop, while many Christians from Egypt fled to Nubia.”
http://san.beck.org/1-12-Africato1500.html
“In 1171 Nubians attacked Egypt and were counter-attacked two years later by Saladin’s brother Turan-Shah. A century later in 1272 Nubian king Dawud captured the Arab trading post at ‘Aydhab; this also resulted in attacks by Mamluk Egypt which captured prominent Nubians and helped Shakanda defeat Dawud II in a struggle over the Nubian throne. Shakanda agreed to pay annual tribute to the Egyptian sultan; Nubians not becoming Muslims had to pay a poll tax; and it was reported that 10,000 captives were sent to Egypt as slaves. Conflicts in Mukurra with Mamluk troops engaged 40,000 tribesmen seeking booty, and in 1290 Nubian king Shamamun captured the Mamluk garrison at Dunkula; Sultan Kalavun, busy with the last crusaders, agreed to a treaty.”
…Some things never change, but some things do….
I hope their independence will not continue be marred by Black-Afrikans believing themselves equal to the White-Arab because of political Islam and Arab acculturation.
“Shall we now sacrifice peace for which we paid so dearly for a limited piece of land in which both sides have undeniable rights?” – Mahjoub Mohamed Salih Sudanese journalist
Same game – different day. Peace means giving up the land. Giving up this piece of land will likely lead to another piece of land that should be given up for peace which leads to another piece of land to be given up for peace…..as each piece for peace pushes them further south…so who blinks for another piece of peace?
the Skeptic
Did yous see the latest news – the Black Sudanese have Southern Sudan as their OFFICIAL country,the Republic of South Sudan, separate form Arab Semitic White Northern Sudan, with a Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, a Black Muslim President? They are hoping this ends the ethnoreligious war between Muslim Southern Black Sudanese, and Muslim Arab Semitic White, Northern Sudanes – yeah – I know – you want to clainm Arabs are Black – tell that to the Black Sudanese – see what kind of response you get from them.
the Skeptic
BOTH Y-DNA J and MT-DNA J ORIGINATE in the Middle East (formerly Near East) – Arab semitic white – ONCE AGAIN the J haplomarkers ONLY occur in Arabs semitic Whites and Black/Arab Semitic W@hites like the mixed heritagew tribes you mentioned – you simply do NOT understand what you are copying and pasting – even your sources back what I have said – quit grasping for straws – Backs and arab semitic Whites are two DIFFERENT ethnic groups – Arabs, NOT Black Nubians, are the Ancient egyptians that buuilt the Pyramids – TWO DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUPS – your sources and mine BACK this.DNA, and,skeletal measurements back this – do take a genetics, and, an Anthropology course to correct your racist views.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28mtDNA%29 and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA
CN
This is the last time. You seem to arguing from a lack of knowledge, so if you cannot agree there is a difference between the L3-Mt-DNA genotype-phenotype and the L3-Y-DNA genotype-phenotype, the J*-Mt-DNA genotype-phenotype and the J-Y-DNA genotype-phenotype then you will never make sense to anyone.
Mt-DNA L – “Macro-haplogroup L’s origin is connected with Mitochondrial Eve, and thus, is believed to suggest an ultimate African origin of modern humans. Its major sub-clades include L0, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5 and L6, with all non-Africans exclusively descended from just haplogroup L3.
Haplogroup L3 descendants notwithstanding, the designation “haplogroup L” is typically used to designate the family of mtDNA clades that are most frequently found in Sub-Saharan Africa. However, all non-African haplogroups coalesce onto either haplogroup M or haplogroup N, and both these macrohaplogroups are simply sub-branches of haplogroup L3. Consequently, L in its broadest definition is really a paragroup containing all of modern humanity, and ALL HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL DNA from around the world are SUBCLADES of haplogroup L. Haplogroups M and N are sometimes referred to as haplogroups L3M and L3N respectively. Mitochondrial Eve is defined as the female human ancestor who is the most recent common ancestor of the most deep-rooted lineages of humanity: haplogroups L, L0 and L1-6.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro-haplogroup_L_%28mtDNA%29
CN – You posted…
“GEE- the Black Ethiopians were “Semetized” by mixing with the Semitic Whites – the NORTHERN 1/3 of Etthiopia is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE. When will YOU learn???”
I posted…for Y-DNA J*, J1, J2…
Oromo 35.1%, Amhara 26,9%, Tigray 6.2%, Somali 6.0%, Gurage 4.3%, Sidama 3.4%, Wolayta 2%, Afar 2%, Hadiya 2%, Gamo 1%, etc.
1/3 of Northern Ethiopia proper may be Y-DNA J (white-Semitic-Arabs), but 2/3 are not. The most frequent MT-DNA is L3…
L3x – East Africa. Ethiopian Oromos,Somalis and Egyptians.
L3a – East Africa. Ethiopians.[4]
L3b’f
L3b – West Africa.
L3f – East Africa
L3f3 – Chad Basin. Central Africa[9]
L3c’d’j
L3c – East Africa. Ethiopian Jews,[4] Yemeni Jews.[4]
L3d – West-Central Africa. Among the Fulani,[4] Chadians,[4] Ethiopians,[10] Mozambique,[10] and Yemen.[10]
L3j – East Africa. Sudanese.[4]
L3e’i’k’x
L3e – West-Central Africa. It is the most common L3 sub-clade in Bantu-speaking populations.[11] L3e is suggested to be associated with a Central African origin and is also the most common L3 subclade amongst African Americans, Afro-Brazilians and Caribbeans.[12]
L3e1 – Central Africa origin and is found in Algeria, Cameroon, Angola,[13] Mozambique, Sudanese and Kikuyu from Kenya as well as in Yemen.
L3e2b – Central Africa and Sudan.
L3e5 – Originated in the Chad Basin but found in Burkina Faso, Nigeria, South Tunisia, South Morocco and Egypt.[14]
L3i / L3i1 – East Africa. Ethiopians.[10]
L3i2 (former L3w) – East Africa. Ethiopians.[10]
L3k – North Africa. Lybians,[4] Tunisians.[4]
PAY ATTENTION CN….I am repeating myself…
MT-DNA – L3x – East Africa. Ethiopian Oromos,Somalis and Egyptians.
Understand? I am trying to understand you…
Again, which L3 is your White-Semitic? This one is no doubt…
Y-DNA L – “L was found in 51% of Syrians from Al-Raqqah, a northern Syrian city in which its previous inhabitants have been wiped out by the Mongols by and repopulated in recent times by local Bedouin populations and Chechen war refugees.[5] In a small sample of Israeli Druze haplogroup L was found in 7 out of 20 (35%). However, studies done on bigger samples showed that L-M20 averages 5% in Israeli Druze,[6] 8% in Lebanese Druze,[7] and it was not found in a sample of 59 Syrian Druze. Haplogroup L has been found in 2.0% (1/50)[8] to 5.25% (48/914)[9] of Lebanese.”
The highest frequency and diversity of haplogroup L can be found in south western Balochistan province along the Makran coast (28%) to Indus River delta.
L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho (approx. 12%[4]) and Pashtuns (approx. 7%[4]), with a moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population (approx. 2%[4]).
L3a (PK3) is found in approximately 23% of Kalash in northwest Pakistan.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L_%28Y-DNA%29
You have to be able to explain what you are trying to say.
There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between Y-DNA-J* (Veddoid)- 50,000 YBP – Not white-Semitic-Arabs
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29
10,000 YBP – White-Semitics
J1 (Haplogroup J1, defined by the 267 marker is most frequent in the Arabian Peninsula Yemen(76%)[13], Saudi (64%) [14], Qatar (58%)[15], and Dagestan (56%)[8].
and J2 – Haplogroup J2 is found in the highest concentrations in the Caucasus and the Fertile Crescent and is found throughout the Mediterranean (including the Italian, Anatolian and Iberian peninsulas and North Africa)[22]”
There is a huge difference between Y-DNA J* and mt-DNA-J1.
There is a huge difference between Y-DNA-L3 and mt-DNA-L3.
In other words Veddoid Y-DNA J* pedates your Out-of-Africa white-Semitics by 40,000 years! Get that straight in your mind before you argue. I hope this lesson has finally sunk into your somewhat peevish mind. Either way, this has become a pissing contest and I am afraid you will win because I don’t relieve myself in the gutter.
CN
Your posts are the rantings of a confused mind…your opinion…
“Arabs have all the Caucasian Haplomarkers, plus four more making them Semitic, versus Indo European Aryan, White, and NO Haplomarkers from any other ethnic group-NO Arabs are NOT a mixed peoples.”
I was referencing Y-DNA J*, J1, J2. The origination was an East African/Horn of African M168 male whose phenotype was Veddoid, i.e., Proto-Capoids – Phenotype
http://www.freebase.com/view/en/australoid
I was referencing Y-DNA J*, J1/J2 of 1/3 Ethiopia – Oromo 35.1%, Amhara 26,9%, Tigray 6.2%, Somali 6.0%, Gurage 4.3%, Sidama 3.4%, Wolayta 2%, Afar 2%, Hadiya 2%, Gamo 1%, etc., which leaves 2/3 not so-called White-Semitic!
Learn the migration of Haplogroup Y-DNA J* – “Haplogroup J* includes all of J EXCEPT for J1 and J2. Haplogroup J Y-DNA 50,000 – 30,000 YBP – Out of East Africa apparently to Socotra (It lies some 240 kilometres (150 mi) east of the HORN OF AFRICA and 380 kilometres (240 mi) south of the Arabian Peninsula!). Oh which is closer 150 miles or 240 miles? J* is rarely found outside of the island of Socotra, where it is quite frequent at 71.4%[2].
You have proven you cannot interpret what you read. You were apparently referencing MT-DNA Haplogroup J for your ethnic White-Semitic-Arabs…
J – (you wrote Semites- J1 & J2)- “Around 45,000 years before present, a mutation took place in the DNA of a woman who lived in the Near East or Caucasus. Further mutations took place in the J line which can be identified as J1a1 (27,000 yrs ago), J2a (19,000 yrs ago), J2b2 (16,000 years ago), J2b3 (5,800 yrs ago), etc. Haplogroup J (along with ‘T’) is associated with the spread of farming and herding in Europe during the Neolithic Era (8,000-10,000 yrs ago).”
It is difficult to debate someone who does not understand the difference between Y-DNA J and MT-DNA J. So which J is your white-semitic-arab now?
The Skeptic – the tribes YOU listed, consist of MIXED Black/Arab Semitic White heritages – do your RESEARCH – Oromo 35.1%, Amhara 26,9%, Tigray 6.2%, Somali 6.0%, Gurage 4.3%, Sidama 3.4%, Wolayta 2%, Afar 2%, Hadiya 2%, Gamo 1%, etc.
J*, J1, and J2 are SEMITIC WHITE haplomarkers,only occurring in Arabs, Jews, and other Semitic White people, And,in mixed peoples – mulattoes IT DOES NOT OCCUR IN NEGROID PEOPLE – READ MY PREVIOUS ANSWERS – MENTIONED IT many TIMES TO YOU – IT IS ONE OF FOUR SEMITIC WHITE HAPLOMARKERS THAT DO NOT OCCUR IN BLACKS, OR ANY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP – THE FOUR HAPLOMARKERS WITH THE OTHER CAUCASIAN HAPLOMARKERS, SEPARATES SEMITIC WHITES FROM INDO EUROPEAN ARYAN WHITES. How long will it take you to understand that – do take an Anthropology, and, a Genetics course’ You don’t realize how foolish you look.
I will post this link AGAIN for you – notice the very prominent phenotypes – tell me if they look from the same ethnic group: the difference between Blacks and Arabs.Sudanese President, Hassan Ahmad AL BASHIR, Black Muslim, created the Janjaweed, Black Sudanese, whom have accepted Islam, learned Arabic, and accepted Arab Semitic White customs, much as if they had accepted Catholicism, learned German, and accepted Indo European Aryan White customs, to ethnically cleanse the Black Sudanese Muslims, his very own ethnic group by siding with the Arab Semitic White Muslims.Sudan is a part of Arab North Africa(1/3 of Africa)although they have a Black President. There is a caste system there where darker skin is lower on the caste system, so many Blacks, especially with lighter skin, and, those with mixed heritage often claim to be JUST Arabs, rather than admit being Black or having Black heritage. Arabs should NOT have to be labeled for the brutality of the BLACK SUDANESE JANJAWEED as so often happens in the media.The war in Sudan is because the indigenous Black Sudanese Muslims feel the immigrant Arab Semitic White Muslims are ethnically cleansing them from their own country to annex them to Arab Semitic White Egypt(Arab Semitic White Ancient Egypt annexed part of Black Nubia-Kemit(now Sudan) in 1521 B.C. to make up Egypt’s lower 1/4 southwestern portion).
THEY ARE NOT ARAB SEMITIC WHITE LIKE THEY ARE NOT INDO EUROPEAN ARYAN WHITE.THEY ARE BLACK SUDANESE. NOTHING RACIST ABOUT THIS. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE.
There is NO such thing as a Black Arab, a misconception, the media often perpetuates. Yes, there are MIXED Black/Arab Semitic White peoples-Hamites, Berbers, and Moors- i.e.- the Late Anwar Sadat, models Iman and Lila Kebede, and Arab(name) on Soul Train-they all have Arab Semitic White fathers and Black mothers, but NO Black Arabs., two different ethnicities. SEE FOR YOURSELF: Typical Black on your left, typical Arab Semitic White on your right side-see the difference between the TWO DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES:
http://www.fahad.com/pics/dubai_unsung_heroes_1_sm.jpg
Arabs have all the Caucasian Haplomarkers, plus four more making them Semitic, versus Indo European Aryan, White, and NO Haplomarkers from any other ethnic group-NO Arabs are NOT a mixed peoples. Following are the ethnic breakdown of Haplomarkers:
Caucasoid – E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group – C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid – A, B , E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
Joe, dont make me laugh.
CN – you translated this…
“Another Ethiopian historian who challenged the external paradigm is Teshale Tibebu. Teshale (1992) poignantly summarizes the argument as follows: “That Ethiopians are Semitic, and not Negroid; civilized, and not barbaric; ARE ALL IMAGES OF ORIENTALIST SEMITICISM IN WESTERN SOCIAL SCIENCE. Ethiopia is considered as the southwestern end of the Semitic world in Africa. The Ethiopian is explained in superlative terms because the ‘Negro’ is considered sub-human. That the heavy cloud of racism had been deeply embedded in the triplicate INTELLECTUAL DIVISION AMONG SOCIAL SCIENCES, ORIENTALISM, and ANTHROPOLGY – corresponding to Whites, ‘orientals’ (who included, Semitic people, who in turn included Ethiopians), and Negro and native American ‘savages,’ respectively – is common knowledge nowadays. … Ethiopians have always been treated as superior to the Negro but inferior to the White in Ethiopianist Studies BECAUSE of the RACIST nature of the classification of the intellectual disciplines. It is quite revealing to see that more is written on Ethiopia in the Journal of Semitic Studies than in the Journal of African History.”
into this …? “GEE- the Black Ethiopians were “Semetized” by mixing with the Semitic Whites – the NORTHERN 1/3 of Etthiopia is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE. When will YOU learn???”
(1) You have proven you cannot interpret what you read. (2) You cannot get off the wheel. 1/3 of Ethiopia (Amharic and Tigryna J1/J2) leaves a predominant 2/3 (Cush, Habesha, etc. Y-DNA and mtDNA), that is not White-Semitic!
Oromo 35.1%, Amhara 26,9%, Tigray 6.2%, Somali 6.0%, Gurage 4.3%, Sidama 3.4%, Wolayta 2%, Afar 2%, Hadiya 2%, Gamo 1%, etc.
Learn the migration of Haplogroup Y-DNA J* –
Haplogroup J Y-DNA 50,000 – 30,000 YBP – Out of East Africa apparently to Socotra (It lies some 240 kilometres (150 mi) east of the HORN OF AFRICA and 380 kilometres (240 mi) south of the Arabian Peninsula!). Oh which is closer 150 miles or 240 miles?
“Haplogroup J* includes all of J EXCEPT for J1 and J2.
J* is rarely found outside of the island of Socotra, where it is quite frequent at 71.4%[2].
“The Semitic language Soqotri, spoken originally only in Socotra, is related to such other Modern SOUTH Arabian languages on the Arabian mainland as Mehri, Harsusi, Bathari, Shehri, and Hobyot. Soqotri is also spoken by minority populations in the United Arab Emirates and other Gulf states.”
Mahara Tribe (Mehri) – They are said to be an Australoid people and in their phenotype they are mostly Veddoid with some being refined and others less so. Note: “In the out of Africa theory, the ancestors of the Australoids, the Proto-Australoids are thought to have been the first branch off from the Proto-Capoids to migrate from Africa about 60,000 BCE, migrating along the now submerged continental shelf of the northern shore of the Indian Ocean and reaching Australia about 50,000 BCE.”
Proto-Capoids – Phenotype
http://www.freebase.com/view/en/australoid
Obviously not White-Semitic to use your modern construct but are speakers of an ancient Semitic language becoming extinct due to Islam and Arabic.
Haplogroup J* also has been found with LOWER frequency in Oman,[3] Ashkenazi Jews,[4] Pakistan,[5] Saudi Arabia,[6] Greece,[3] the Czech Republic,[3][7] and several Turkic peoples.[8][9][10]”
“The main current subgroups J1 and J2, which now comprise between them almost all of the population of the haplogroup, are both believed to have arisen very early, at least 10,000 years ago.”
J* 50,000 YBP.
J1/J2 – 10,000 YBP.
That is a 40,000 year time span for DNA mutations and is separate from J1/J2 your White-Semitic-Arabs. But tell me this…what is the difference between J*, J1 and J2? Phenotypes – what someone looks like including skin color.
Lilith Draco
Your heart is in the right place, BUT you confuse racism with ethnic pride. If you are NOT proud of your heritage/background, FINE – don’t call it racism for others to be proud of their heritage – racism is DIFFERENT – it is hatred of other ethnic groups, thinking they are inferior, less than human, less intelligent, lazy, and so on- THAT is racism. Again, if you are not proud of YOUR ethnic heritage background,that is YOUR prerogative, but don’t label others as racist for claiming what is theirs, NO hatred involved – obviously, there are racists here who DO hate other ethnic heritages/backgrounds. I pride myself on having friends, and, having dated women of all ethnic heritages/ backgrounds. I treat them all with respect/ dignity , EQUALLY from Janitor/Maid to Corporate Executive – I treat NO ONE differently. At the same time, I will NOT tolerate bigotry towards MY ethnic heritage/background, or, to claim why belongs to my ethnic heritage/ background. There is nothing wrong with ethnic pride as long as it is NOT derogatory, demeaning,hateful, harm others, and so on.Do separate ethnic pride from BIGOTRY/racism. They are NOT the same.
You know what?
I’m not black, I’m not white, I’m not Asian, I’m not Middle Eastern. I’m HUMAN.
I don’t fit in with Christians, I don’t fit in with Pagans, nor do I fit in with Muslims. My religion is the religion of doing good for my fellow human beings.
I’m not straight. I’m not gay. I’m not bisexual. I don’t love a person’s genitals, I love their philosophies and their intelligence and their compassionate hearts.
Why does NOBODY see that this argument and all the mudslinging and accusations of racism on BOTH sides is not getting this planet anywhere??? I mean, does it MATTER where Tutankhamun was from, or what color his skin was, or who he was married to, or any of these picayune little matters? What next, will we be discussing what he liked to eat, or whether he preffered cotton to linen? Don’t you see that you’re feeding the madness?
As for the entire “Annunaki” and “Nibiru” and “ancient astronaut” nonsense, most extraterrestrial races are NOT human-like, nor are those that are “all white” OR “all black”. MOST ET races look little if anything like humans…some are dragon-like (and not all bad), some are similar to mermaids/mermen (The Sirius Mystery), some are even cat-like.
As for pigeonholing all humans of one group as being (enter adjective here), such as saying “all blacks/folks of African descent are lazy”, or “all whites/people of Western European descent are intolerant, murderous bigots”, answer me this–have you interviewed every single person on the planet to test your hypothesis? Granted, I’ve been treated better by people of African descent, but I’ve known plenty of white people who were insanely compassionate and merciful and just.
Basically, I’m insulted that people still use this old bullcrap in 2011. A hundred years ago, fundamentalist Christianity was the reasoning behind racism…today it’s New Age conspiracy theories. Have a nice day, folks, and remember, you humans all bleed red.
Cos Seven and the Skeptic
In case the two of you do NOT realize it, the war in Darfur Sudan is an ethnoreligious war between Muslim Arabs(Semitic Whites) of North Sudan and Muslim Blacks of Southern Sudan.
Joe
You forgot to mention who RE#ALLY started the slave trade – Blacks of Africa – they caught, beat,raped, even cannibalized Blacks of other tribes, and, enslaved them – when the Arab Semitic Whites, and, the Indo European Aryan Whites made contact – the Black tribes quickly traded off the captive Blacks from other tribes to these Whites, as slaves. Also, it is NOT a well known fact that the free Blacks in America bought other Blacks as slaves, the women to be used as sex slaves. Enough bad to go around for all to share in the blame – don’t forget, Northern Whites, even some Southern Whites spilled BLOOD to FREE the Black slaves.
Cos Seven
Trying to rewrite history – are we – your information is TOTALLY WRONG, and, off BASE – simple Google search – have at it: http://www.google.com/search?q=arvastan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=4nB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=zZUUTovXNqTEsQKUqtTUDw&ved=0CBQQBSgA&q=arvasthan+-+land+of+the+horses&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fce33a84b0764b22&biw=1000&bih=577
Arabs have different DNA haplomarkers, different skeletal measurements, and, are more like tanned Caucasians than Blacks – Arabs are classified as Semitic Whites – go back and read all my previous answers : the difference between Blacks and Arabs.Sudanese President, Hassan Ahmad AL BASHIR, Black Muslim, created the Janjaweed, Black Sudanese, whom have accepted Islam, learned Arabic, and accepted Arab Semitic White customs, much as if they had accepted Catholicism, learned German, and accepted Indo European Aryan White customs, to ethnically cleanse the Black Sudanese Muslims, his very own ethnic group by siding with the Arab Semitic White Muslims.Sudan is a part of Arab North Africa(1/3 of Africa)although they have a Black President. There is a caste system there where darker skin is lower on the caste system, so many Blacks, especially with lighter skin, and, those with mixed heritage often claim to be JUST Arabs, rather than admit being Black or having Black heritage. Arabs should NOT have to be labeled for the brutality of the BLACK SUDANESE JANJAWEED as so often happens in the media.The war in Sudan is because the indigenous Black Sudanese Muslims feel the immigrant Arab Semitic White Muslims are ethnically cleansing them from their own country to annex them to Arab Semitic White Egypt(Arab Semitic White Ancient Egypt annexed part of Black Nubia-Kemit(now Sudan) in 1521 B.C. to make up Egypt’s lower 1/4 southwestern portion).
THEY ARE NOT ARAB SEMITIC WHITE LIKE THEY ARE NOT INDO EUROPEAN ARYAN WHITE.THEY ARE BLACK SUDANESE. NOTHING RACIST ABOUT THIS. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE.
Therei is NO such thing as a Black Arab, a misconception, the media often perpetuates. Yes, there are MIXED Black/Arab Semitic White peoples-Hamites, Berbers, and Moors- i.e.- the Late Anwar Sadat, models Iman and Lila Kebede, and Arab(name) on Soul Train-they all have Arab Semitic White fathers and Black mothers, but NO Black Arabs., two different ethnicities. SEE FOR YOURSELF: Typical Black on your left, typical Arab Semitic White on your right side-see the difference between the TWO DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES:
http://www.fahad.com/pics/dubai_unsung_heroes_1_sm.jpg
Arabs have all the Caucasian Haplomarkers, plus four more making them Semitic, versus Indo European Aryan, White, and NO Haplomarkers from any other ethnic group-NO Arabs are NOT a mixed peoples. Following are the ethnic breakdown of Haplomarkers:
Caucasoid – E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group – C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid – A, B , E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
Blacks look NOTHING like Arabs -, although many mixed/light skinned Blacks pass themselves off as Arabs, ESPECIALLY in Egypt, Ethiopia, Sudan, and Somalia, which, by the way, have SIGNIFICANT Arab populations 65% of Egypt, 50% of Sudan(Northern half), 1/3 of Ethiopia(Northern part), and 1/3 of Somalia(Northern part). ARABS ARE SEMITIC WHITE, NOT BLACK.
Arvi is the Hebrew for Arab – have at it: http://www.google.com/search?q=arvi&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=lzB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=arvi-+hebrew+term&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fce33a84b0764b22&biw=1000&bih=577
the Skeptic
QUOTE from the article in YOUR link – “On the question of “Semitized inhabitants, Bernal (1987) appears to agree with Ullendorff. Bernal stated, “The dominant Ethiopian languages are Semitic.” I must add, however, Bernal now claims the origin of what is generally accepted as Afro-Asiatic or “Semitic” languages is Ethiopia. The possible diffusion of the Afro-Asiatic languages from Ethiopia to the Near East since Late Paleolithic times have also been emphasized by Grover Hudson (1977; 1978). This claim by itself is a major challenge to the South Arabian or external paradigm. Ullendorff’s claim that “the Semitized inhabitants of historic Ethiopia” had South Arabian origin has become difficult to sustain. It is, however, exemplary to look into the writings of Ullendorff in order to bring to light the process of linking the Ethiopian history to an external paradigm. ” and “The outline of Ethiopian history constructed by Ullendorff begins with “South Arabia and Aksum.” And the outline has been duplicated and replicated by a significant number of Ethiopian historians. For instance, Sergew used similar “external” approach in his otherwise very important book entitled Ancient and medieval Ethiopian History to 1270. Sergew (1972) wrote, “Ethiopia is separated from Southern Arabia by the Red Sea. As is well known, the inhabitants of South Arabia are of Semitic stock, which most probably came from Mesopotamia long before our era and settled in this region. … For demographic and economic reasons, the people of South Arabia started to migrate to Ethiopia. It is hard to fix the date of these migrations, but it can be said that the first immigration took place before 1000 B.C.11 Sergew essentially echoed the proposition advanced by Ethiopianits, such as E. Littmann (1913), D. Nielson (1927), J Doresse (1957), H.V. Wissman (1953), C. Conti Rossini (1928), M. Hoffner (1960), A. Caquot and J. Leclant (1955), A. Jamme (1962), and Ullendorff (1960).12 The Ethiopianists almost categorically laid down the external or South Arabian paradigmatical foundation for Ethiopian history. ”
GEE- the Black Ethiopians were “Semetized” by mixing with the Semitic Whites – the NORTHERN 1/3 of Etthiopia is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE. When will YOU learn???
It is already established that pale skinned people developed after the migration away from the sunny and fertile lands of the South into the Northern parts of the Earth. This migration may have been due to population growth or a growing number of lepers who couldnt survive in the Sunny parts. The latter is probably least likely. In any case it seems clear that after thousands of years this migrant population formed separate identities and ways from their Southern ancestors and encountered them as a separate and hostile group, reulting in wars and so forth. In any case the Northern group had become paler, in some cases those who were extremely isolated had developed blue eyes and blond hair, the result of the sustained expression or recessive genes. This is clear. Their intermixing with original people, what you will call black on the average day, resulted in what would be called a mulatto in Georgia in 1800. But since this person spoke Arabic it was called an Arab or some “exotic” name. If this person was born in Spain or Italy they would perhaps be a Spaniard or Sicilian, those swarthy types.
This neoclassic/American need to preserve a position of dominance by first separating peoples along almost arbitrary lines based on appearance, and then rank them according to similarity to the white standard of humanity is that idiocy I speak of. The time for that is up. The lies have been unraveled. Some of you are like those soldiers of old who didnt get word that the Nazis surrendered and remained in the field still nervously expecting to be shelled. The cat is out of the bag and all those descendants of the exploited are petting that cat and feeding it fresh trout.
Cos Seven,are you a black militant man that hates white people because our ancestors were slaves?I am glad that our African ancestors ended up in what is now the U.S.A. I am a black man.This is a wonderful white Christian nation.I like it here because we blacks and other racial minorities have a better standard of living than African blacks in Africa or in European countries.Maybe some of you black militants from U.S. can visit some African countries like Zimbabwe and Nigeria and see how bad the economies and living conditions are for the black citizens.A lot of white Americans are scared of what president Obama is trying to do and is achieving some of his goals about transforming this great white Christian nation.Did you know that Obama signed an executive order last that will allow for about 80,000 Muslims from the different continents to immigrate to America?He said that he is doing this for humanitarian reasons.Where do you think we descendants of African slaves would be living if not for white European enslavement?Maybe some of are ancestors would of remained in Africa or maybe some of them would be slaves to Arab slave owners.If it were not for the white race exploring the world a few hundreds years ago with their big wooden ships and colonizing other continents,we might not be alive today or we would not have inventions like this IPad for me to read your statements about whitey moving out of Africa and into the peninsula of Europe.Europe has been referred to as Eurasia because this land mass is one big continent and the other word for white people is Caucasian.
Reading some of the arguments of those white intellectuals who contend their foolishness leaves me to conclude that the desire or necessity to hold on to the sense of superiority given by the preceding centuries’ constructed “science” and philosophy makes the white collective mind simply idiotic. There are those like Count Volney and the several ancient Greek writers who wrote the truth plainly and without reservation, but then the “white” intellectuals coming after the age of slavery and its fallacious and malicious construction of myths and pseudoscience are rendered idiots reciting a set of lies agreed upon, becoming naked emperors dancing before a world becoming fully aware of their nakedness.
You want me to link to some sources to prove my position or paste some DNA gibberish. Those formulas may add up is you use the key provided by their author however the premise behind it is all fucked up. In other words The story behind who has what DNA is all very questionable. So many lies are being uncovered. For example one of the biggest lies or coverups is that the Arabs arent an original race as far as how they look today. They are the result of a combination of people. Whenever you see Lightskinned people like that that is a sign of a latecoming people mixing with an earlier people and its KNOWN that the earlier people were DARK SKINNED. A people of the Sun
CN you contend that Arabs arent “black.” Well my research shows that the word Arab is rooted in the word “arva” as in Arvastan, land of the horses. Apparently the land called Arabia was called Arvastan when ruled by Ethiopic/Kushite people who also ruled what is the Indian Peninsula as well. Sometime preceding the Sabean period I think. So then it seems that Arabs are patently African or “black” if you will. Unless Kushites are all of a sudden Semitic White.
CN
Who are Negroes?
“Around 1442 the Portuguese first arrived in sub-Saharan Africa while trying to find a sea route to India. The term negro, literally meaning “black”, was used by the Spanish and Portuguese as a simple description to refer to people. From the 18th century to the late 1960s, “negro” (later capitalized) was considered to be the proper English-language term for certain people of sub-Saharan African origin.”
This is racial segregation. The purpose intends to divide the Sub-Saharan Afrikans, i.e., your Negroes, from the so-called Hamites of Biblical lore, whose descendants were ‘cursed’ with dark complexions. Why is it that the DNA argument used includes Ethiopia (modern) as Hamitic (outdated racial segregation) even when Ethiopians are genetically ethnic Afrikans (ie., Blacks)?
“East Africa, and more specifically the general area of Ethiopia, is widely considered the site of the emergence of early Homo sapiens in the Middle Paleolithic 400,000 years ago. Homo sapiens idaltu, found at site Middle Awash in Ethiopia, lived about 160,000 years ago.[31]”
“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia
Hamito-Semitic Falsehood driven by racial segregation
“Another Ethiopian historian who challenged the external paradigm is Teshale Tibebu. Teshale (1992) poignantly summarizes the argument as follows: “That Ethiopians are Semitic, and not Negroid; civilized, and not barbaric; are all images of orientalist semiticism in Western Social Science. Ethiopia is considered as the southwestern end of the Semitic world in Africa. The Ethiopian is explained in superlative terms because the ‘Negro’ is considered sub-human. That the heavy cloud of racism had been deeply embedded in the triplicate intellectual division among Social Sciences, orientalism, and anthropology – corresponding to Whites, ‘orientals’ (who included, Semitic people, who in turn included Ethiopians), and Negro and native American ‘savages,’ respectively – is common knowledge nowadays. … Ethiopians have always been treated as superior to the Negro but inferior to the White in Ethiopianist Studies because of the racist nature of the classification of the intellectual disciplines. It is quite revealing to see that more is written on Ethiopia in the Journal of Semitic Studies than in the Journal of African History.”
http://www.tadias.com/03/15/2010/assumptions-and-interpretations-of-ethiopian-history-part-ii/
Who or what is an African?
“…” This term refers more to nativity than raceality. The primal or strict philological meaning, as given in the Century Dictionary, is: “Pertaining to the continent of Africa;” “a native of the continent, or, in ancient times, of the province of Africa.” “Africa” is a wide ethnographical region. An African may be white or black, yellow or brown. In the earliest attempt at classification of the races, the term “African” had simply an ethnographical meaning. Bernier was the first to attempt to locate the races, “whites” in Europe, “yellow” in Asia, and “blacks” in Africa. Linnaeus was the first to attempt an ethnological description of the African, but his use of the term “African” is not philological, but racial. Buffon, Blumenbach, Cuvier, St. Vincent, Desmonlin, Kant, Huxley, Quarterpages, all use the term in its territorial application.
… When they come to the ethnological description of the races, then the term, by literary consent, is applied to the “black” peoples of Africa. The warrant is found in the predominance of “blacks” in Africa.”
Keep playing the same, tired word games. When one considers the phenotype of the European one does not think dark-complexion, tropical body type. You use Middle East as if there is a very specific body-type and White-Semitic-Arab has been your mantra. Yet, when it comes to genetics originating in Africa suddenly there was a guy who was not an East Afrikan – Black Ethiopian, i.e., topical body type. I don’t care to call Negroes Afrikans, but you play games with how the word Afrikan does not equal Black and Black does not equal Negro. So, be it. Do not speak to me about European haplogroups since they derived from the East Afrikan not the other way around!
Instead of races we must recognize the Afrikan ethnicity, Asian ethnicity, Eur-Asian and European ethnicity. Word games that claim Afrikan ethnicity is not Black in the modern use of the word is plain wrong on so many common sense levels. There are Dutch who live in South Africa they are not ethnic Afrikans. If I go live in India I become an Afrikan-American living in India. If I live in one of the European countries, I am an Afrikan-American adopting ‘British’ culture perhaps, but not a European. An Afrikan in the Caribbean is still an ethnic Black-Afrikan. CN, I am done with this.
Hellanian
Thank you, and, welcome.
The Sceptic
Not all Africans are Black, ESPECIALLY when it comes to humanoid ancestors – all ethnic groups branch of this lineage, INCLUDING BLACKS- GEE – you ask what NON African means – anything that is NOT African – Asia, Europe North America, etc..YOUR problem is, you are equating African with Negroid, when NOT all Africans are Negroid, including human ancestors.
Robert Sepehr’s real name is ERECH SHINAR and he is a scam!!
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1408708/pg1
CN
I am glad you agree with me.dont worry about The Sceptic the links and the research talk for their own.
I want to say soemthing here : I had ‘liked’ a facebook page called ‘Planet X Nibiru and the Annunaki’ created by author ROBERT SEPEHR. This is where i saw this article and decided to post the link witht he info as i did here.he deleted my comments twice.first time i thought it was something wrong with facebook so i posted again.after seeing my post deleted i challenged him to a debate and a conversation and explained to him exactly what CN said: that this link reinforces his arguement about the specific chromosome and its expansion further than what the map showes. for a person like him who in his pesronal page writes as his moto a saying from Plato (“Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught falsehoods in school. And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.”) is very strange and suspicious that he actually deleted my last comment and just some minutes ago kicked me out of his page!!! I am glad that CN, a scientific person as I can see from his/her writing is understanding my point of view without any limitations on his his/her mind.Research is knowledge.why did ROBERT SEPEHR try to hide the fact that the specific chromosome is all around europe and in some cases found more in the Greeks rather than in the Swedish people? is it maybe because he is fanatically racist and is using the Annunaki theory of the Sumerians as a cover in order to manipulate the findings of science to his own advantage? I admired this person and recomended his pages to many of my facebook friends.NOT ANY MORE!people like him are dicusting and traitors to humanity.
CN thanks for your words.research talk for its own.people who are not willing to spend sometime researching without any limitations to their thought,are not very easy to talk to and actually are not worth to talk to.Numbers statistics and research is our best weapon rather than just words.
Sceptic : science is and will always update! its difficult for you to accept but the next generations will know better and thats what our duty is. to find the truth and share it.
not like ROBERT SEPEHR!
CN
See I knew it. You wrote:
“GEE – in ALL your copying/pasting, NOT ONE WORD THAT VERIFIED THE EARLIEST COMMON AFRICAN ANCESTOR WAS BLACK/NEGROID.Quote from YOUR source,”Comparison of the intrapopulation sequence divergence(MY TRANSLATION – Black Africans were the first to diverge off this common ancestor)in African and non-African populations confirms that African populations exhibit the largest extent of mtDNA VARAIATION, a result that further supports the hypothesis that AFRICANS represent the most ANCIENT HUMAN GROUP and that ALL MODERN HUMANS have a COMMON and RECENT AFRICAN ORIGIN. The age of the total African variation was estimated to be 101,000-133,000 years before present (YBP), while the age of haplogroup L was estimated at 98,000-130,000 YBP. These values substantially exceed the ages of all Asian- and European-specific mtDNA haplogroups.”
CN’S TRANSLATION – Black Africans were the first to diverge off this common ancestor)in African and non-African populations confirms that African populations exhibit the largest extent of mtDNA VARAIATION, a result that further supports the hypothesis that AFRICANS represent the most ANCIENT HUMAN GROUP and that ALL MODERN HUMANS have a COMMON and RECENT AFRICAN ORIGIN.
Explain to the world what the difference is between African and non-African genotype-phenotypes.
You are so dense you are stuck in mud. Go ahead, come back and blog that African does not equate to Negro. Come back and explain that non-African does not equate to non-Negro. Go ahead. You will be pitied for either being ignorant or being a moron although I suspect you are both. Go ahead….got milk? Oh, really so there is a difference between milk now and the cows are Green? Please – stop. I am laughing my a** off! You’re killing me….happy aren’t you? stop, please, my sides….ROFLMAO. I am done with you and this topic, pick another- take your corner and wait for the bell to ring….waiting….
Hellanian
Your links are an excellent explanation of what I was attempting to explain(numerous times) to the Skeptic – very limited Negroid admixture in Caucasoid Europe, and the Caucasoid Near East(Middle East) – There is some admixture of Caucasoid Europe, and, Middle East(J1 and J2 in particular). The Skeptic, do read(hopefullly COMPREHEND) the links presented.
The Skeptic
GEE – in ALL your copying/pasting, NOT ONE WORD THAT VERIFIED THE EARLIEST COMMON AFRICAN ANCESTOR WAS BLACK/NEGROID.Quote from YOUR source,”Comparison of the intrapopulation sequence divergence(MY TRANSLATION – Black Africans were the first to diverge off this common ancestor)in African and non-African populations confirms that African populations exhibit the largest extent of mtDNA VARAIATION, a result that further supports the hypothesis that AFRICANS represent the most ANCIENT HUMAN GROUP and that ALL MODERN HUMANS have a COMMON and RECENT AFRICAN ORIGIN. The age of the total African variation was estimated to be 101,000-133,000 years before present (YBP), while the age of haplogroup L was estimated at 98,000-130,000 YBP. These values substantially exceed the ages of all Asian- and European-specific mtDNA haplogroups.””
In your milk analogy – for the sake of the argument, let’s say the common milk ancestor was green- one offshoot might be chocolate milk(AKA – Negroid), one vanilla (Caucasoid) and, so on – of course both milks will have some shared haplogroups, but there will also be differences of haplogroups NOT shared – what YOU keep erroneously espousing is that all milks come from the chocolate, NOT, the green milk. Green milk would be the COMMON ancestor milk.At some point, vanilla, chocolate, and all other milks again diverged.Now maybe you understand.The the milks would all be Africans, BUT, not all African milks would be chocolate – some would be OTHER divergent milks – you could NOT say all milks are chocolate, but you could say, all milks are African – NOW, do you understand the difference???
good article but that map is old!needs to get updated.you cant argue that Tut’s DNA was western european as the eastern Europeans have more of the specific chromosome.the map was done by Arthur Kemp who believes that the Trojan War happened in Scandinavia and that Herakles was born in Oslo…
here is my reference :
http://dienekes.110mb.com/articles/greeknry/
African = Most Ancient – Modern Humans, i.e., Negroes.
Eur-Asians = Next Most Ancient – Modern Humans, after Negroes.
Asian = Next Most Ancient – Modern Humans, after Eur-Asians.
Europeans = Youngest Modern Humans after Asians.
Europeans DNA is 1/3 Afrikan and 2/3 Eurasian, therefore, no European can give an Afrikan genes that were already his to begin with. In other words, if I have a glass of milk and you pour your milk into my glass I won’t have milk that is any different, and I won’t have more milk because the glass has a definite volume. Haplogroup BT is B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P. Q, R, S, and T. Now see the R1* that Black-Afrikan specific. European R1b1- is not as ancient as the Black-Afrikan specific R1* and the sources are two separate branches of the phylogenetic tree.
The primer, is of course, that the milk poured into my glass is as good/healthy/fresh as my milk. If not, your spoiled milk spoils the whole glass. Milk = chromosomes!
Got milk?
CN,
Read and learn…
“Am J Hum Genet 1995 Jul;57(1):133-49
Analysis of mtDNA variation in African populations reveals the most ancient of all human continent-specific haplogroups.
Chen YS, Torroni A, Excoffier L, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Wallace DC
Department of Genetics and Molecular Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA 30322, USA.
mtDNA sequence variation was examined in 140 AFRICANS, including PYGMIES from ZAIRE and Central African Republic (C.A.R.) and MANDANKENKALU, WOLOF, and PULAR from SENEGAL. More than 76% of the AFRICAN mtDNAs (100% of the Pygmies and 67.3% of the Senegalese) formed ONE MAJOR mtDNA cluster (haplogroup L) defined by an AFRICAN-specific HpaI site gain at nucleotide pair (np) 3592. Additional MUTATIONS subDIVIDED HAPLOGROUP L into two subhaplogroups, each encompassing both Pygmy and Senegalese mtDNAs. A novel 12-bp homoplasmic insertion in the intergenic region between tRNA(Tyr) and cytochrome oxidase I (COI) genes was also observed in 17.6% of the Pygmies from C.A.R. This insertion is one of the largest observed in human mtDNAs. Another 25% of the Pygmy mtDNAs harbored a 9-bp deletion between the cytochrome oxidase II (COII) and tRNA(Lys) genes, a length polymorphism PREVIOUSLY REPORTED in NON-AFRICAN populations. In addition to haplogroup L, other haplogroups were observed in the SENEGALESE. These haplogroups were more similar to those OBSERVED in EUROPEANS and Asians than to haplogroup L mtDNAs, suggesting that the AFRICAN mtDNAs WITHOUT the HpaI np 3592 site could be THE ANCESTRAL TYPES FROM WHICH EUROPEAN and ASIAN mtDNAs were DERIVED. Comparison of the intrapopulation sequence divergence in African and non-African populations confirms that African populations exhibit the largest extent of mtDNA VARAIATION, a result that further supports the hypothesis that AFRICANS represent the most ANCIENT HUMAN GROUP and that ALL MODERN HUMANS have a COMMON and RECENT AFRICAN ORIGIN. The age of the total African variation was estimated to be 101,000-133,000 years before present (YBP), while the age of haplogroup L was estimated at 98,000-130,000 YBP. These values substantially exceed the ages of all Asian- and European-specific mtDNA haplogroups.”
http://www.moccasinbend.net/cita/mtdna.html
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNATreeTrunk.html
CN
You don’t even copy/paste information honestly, it actually reads….
“In human genetics, Haplogroup BT (SRY10831.1+ mutation (SRY1532.1+ mutation), M42, M94, M139, M299) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup.[1] The notation BT refers to the derived set of haplogroups between B and T which forms its own cladistic set.
Haplogroup BT is descent from Haplogroup A2-T about 70,000 years bp, possibly originating in western North Africa or central West Africa. It contains the remaining living human Y-DNA haplogroups from macro-haplogroup A.”
CN
I am really tired of your word games. Suddenly being a Black-Afrikan is to NOT be a Negro? Listen man, keep playing with yourself. I am done trying to convince you to use more the brain in your head and less the one between your legs. What genotype-phenotype do you think Haplogroup Y-DNA A, A2(BT),B was if not Negro? Answer that question for all the world to see.
“Y-DNA haplogroup A represents the oldest branching of the human Y chromosome tree, thought to have begun about 60,000 years ago. Like Y-DNA haplogroup B, the A lineage is seen only in Africa and is scattered widely, but thinly across the continent. These haplogroups have higher frequencies among hunter-gather groups in Ethiopia and Sudan, and are also seen among click language-speaking populations. Their patchy, widespread distribution may mean that these haplogroups are remnants of ancient lineages that once had a much wider range but have been largely displaced by more recent population events.
The most commonly seen sub-groups of haplogroup A are A2 (A-M6), A3b1 (A-M51), and A3b2 (A-M13). Sub-groups A2 and A3b1 are seen in South Africa, with A3b1 seen exclusively among the Khoisan. The range of A3b2 is restricted to Eastern Africa and at lower frequencies among Cameroonians. About 1.1% of African-Americans belong to the sub-group A3b2.”
A, B, BT…all Black-Afrikan-Negroid!
the Skeptic
You keep insisting all other ethnic group are phenotypes of Blacks within the variation – PURE nonsence – I showed where R1b1 has its ORIGINS in the ME, spreading out from there, NOT in Europe.Where do I say Arabs were ruled by Europeans – NO( WHERE – I have ALWAYS represented King Tut as MIXED – do read my answers – his Grandmother appears MIXED – although experts claim she is Caucasian – READ MY ANSWERS.It is YOU who keeps trying to say Arab Semitic Whites are Blacks – I NEVER said BOTH Anwar Sadat’s parents were Arab Semitic White – JUST HIS FATHER – his MOTHER WAS BLACK SUDANESE – perhaps, you understand that Anwar Sadat was a Mulatto – this may make it easier to understand for you. If you have read my previous answers, and, comprehended them – I already mentioned some sub Saran tribes had a version of the subclade R1b1 WITHOUT mixing – that much you got correct – not sure you comprehend it, as you do NOT understand much of what you are copying/pasting, as demonstrated by your erroneous explanations.Now, tell me why you think Arab Semitic Whites are Black when DNA and pysical measurements say NO? Two DIFFERENT ethnic groups – FACT – not segregationist – FACT – YOU keep insisting OTHERWISE – WHY??? Show me where haplogroup BT is a Black, rather than a haplogroup belong to the descendant all humans are derived from – QAGAIN, you keep IMPLYING Black Africans when the sources DO NOT SAY this.:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_BT_%28Y-DNA%29 – The common ancestor of all ethnic groups LIVED in Africa, but was NEVER CLASSIFIED AS NEGROID – show ANY reputable sources saying so. QUIT being a racial segregationist.
CN – you wrote…
“Pwerhaops your confusion comes because many Black Africans speak Arabic. That is because t5hey either live in North Africa, accepted, Islam, or both – that does NOT make them Arab Semitic White. Many light skinned Blacks – mixed, or, not, claim to be Arab to avoid the racist caste system, even among Blacks – the late Anwar Sadat fought rumors for years that he was Black/mixed until almost on his death bed – he had an Arab Semitic White father, and, a Black Sudanese mother.”
You are stuck on the wheel to nowhere. I do not enjoy going around in circles. You are a racial segregationist because your concept of what Black-Afrikans ‘look like’ is narrow and undifferentiated. You then contradict yourself by saying that Tut was mixed having a Sudanese mother like Anwar Sadat, and then say both are White-Semitic-Arabs. That is a political-racial-segregationist construct. When his blood-line in order to be king was based on the blood of his mother, their cultural and ethnic foundation is Afrikan first according to the rule. You go on saying Ancient Egyptians White-Semitic-Arab who were ruled over for how long by a family of kings who were European – Y-DNA R1b1? No wonder the DNA results have not been presented in peer reviewed articles! Arabs are not R1b1 by any stretch of genetic interpretation.
“While Western Europe is dominated by the R1B1B2 (R-M269) branch of R1b, the Chadic-speaking area in Africa is dominated by the branch known as R1B1A (R-V88). These represent two very successful “twigs” on a much bigger “family tree”.” (wiki)
Follow the steps, R1B-1A (Black-Afrikan)comes BEFORE R1B1B (Eurasian)! A, B, C, D. Not R1b-1b yields R1b-1a!
Additionally,
“In human genetics, Haplogroup BT (SRY10831.1 (SRY1532.1), M42, M94, M139, M299) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup.[1] The notation BT refers to the derived set of haplogroups between B and T which forms its own cladistic set.
Haplogroup BT is descent from Haplogroup A2-T about 70,000 years bp, possibly originating in western North Africa or central West Africa. It contains the remaining living human Y-DNA haplogroups from macro-haplogroup A.” (wiki)
Haplogroup BT Step B, C, D, E, F, G. H. I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T….With mutations, from 70,000 years ago, these sons broke off forming separate clades including Negritos of the South Pacific Islands. In other words, no European can contribute to Afrikan genetics because it as the Afrikan BT who distributed the genotypes in the first place! This gave place to different phenotypes, simplistically, ‘what someone looks like anatomically’, such as tropics adapted or cold adapted body types.
I will not come back this way again. It is old. You subscribe to the Multi-Racial (Black Common Ancestor, Asian Common Ancestor, Euasian Common Ancestor, European Common Ancestor)polygenetic-multi-regionalist theory, and I hold firmly to the monogenetic-‘Out of Black-Afrika’ phylogenetic phylum.
Oh, by the way, I am not confused.
the voice
North Africa is part of the Middle East – Arab semitic White) – the Southern Indo European Aryan Whites include Greeks, Turks, Iranians, Tamils of India/Pakistan,Southern Germans, Southern Italians – ALL of whom have dark/very dark, skin, hair, and eyes – so by your reasoning, they must be “colored” even though they are in Europe.
the voice
80% of Arab Semitic Whites have olive(golden brown skin) skin, dark hair, and dark eyes, 20% run the gamut like Northern Europeans(Southern Europeans resemble Arabs, the two often mistaken for each other).
The Skeptic
Pwerhaops your confusion comes because many Black Africans speak Arabic. That is because t5hey either live in North Africa, accepted, Islam, or both – that does NOT make them Arab Semitic White. Many light skinned Blacks – mixed, or, not, claim to be Arab to avoid the racist caste system, even among Blacks – the late Anwar Sadat fought rumors for years that he was Black/mixed until almost on his death bed – he had an Arab Semitic White father, and, a Black Sudanese mother.
The Skeptic
Well, at least you acknowledged I wa correct about the Badarian being mixed – you denied it earlier.Sorry to disappoint you, but Arabs are Semitic White, by DNA, and, by skeletal measurements – Black phenotype variation does NOT cut it. Like I said, take/ study a Genetics, and, an Physical Anthropology course. Dose Jamie Farr,Arab American, Klinger on “MASH” look in the same ethnic group as Bill Cosby, Black American, Dr. Huxtabile, on “The Cosby Show?”.Arab Semitic White, and, Black are two different Ethnic groups: SEE FOR YOURSELF: Typical Black on your left, typical Arab Semitic White on your right side-see the difference between the TWO DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES:
http://www.fahad.com/pics/dubai_unsung_heroes_1_sm.jpg
You can NOT classify Arabs of North Africa, as Black – the Ancient, and, Modern Egyptians were Arab Semitic White , NOT Black Nubians, or, any other Black tribes. Claiming Arab Semitic Whites are Black, does NOT cut it – you are grasping for straws, NOW.
CN – Anthropological Research and Findings –
Catch up – ANCIENT EGYPTIANS NOT-WHITE-SEMITIC ARABS
“Certainly there was some foreign admixture [in Egypt], but basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times… [the] Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985; Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990.. et al.,)… The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East African Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions..” (Frank Yurco, “An Egyptological Review,” 1996 -in Mary R. Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean Rogers, Black Athena Revisited, 1996, The University of North Carolina Press, p. 62-100)”
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002139
CN
Do you see what you did? I used the term ‘racial segregationist’ and you AUTOMATICALLY interpreted that as the division of Blacks from Whites. No, this ploy by Caucasian scholars was the division within Black-Afrika to set up a false construct that the Supra-Saharan, Saharan, and Sub-Saharan peoples were not all NEGROES. The Pn2 Transition unites all Afrikans regardless of phenotype (i.e., skin color, hair types, etc.)as being biologically NEGRO. Again, your mental constipation issues regarding the NEGROENESS of the Black-Afrikan as so called Egyptians, Nubians, Kush-Seti (Kushites), Habesha (Abyssinia), etc., who speak non-Bantu languages, Semitic languages, and Bantu languages remains your blindspot. One Phylogenetic tree – various genotypes-phenotypes.