Despite the refusal of the Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, to release any DNA results which might indicate the racial ancestry of Pharaoh Tutankhamen, the leaked results reveal that King Tut’s DNA is a 99.6 percent match with Western European Y chromosomes.
The DNA test results were inadvertently revealed on a Discovery Channel TV documentary filmed with Hawass’s permission — but it seems as if the Egyptian failed to spot the giveaway part of the documentary which revealed the test results.
Hawass previously announced that he would not release the racial DNA results of Egyptian mummies — obviously because he feared the consequences of such a revelation.
On the Discovery Channel broadcast, which can be seen on the Discovery Channel website here, or if they pull it, on YouTube here, at approximately 1:53 into the video, the camera pans over a printout of DNA test results from King Tut.
Firstly, here is a brief explanation of the results visible in the video. It is a list of what is called Short Tandem Repeats (STRs).
STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11
What does this mean? Fortunately, a genius by the name of Whit Athey provides the key to this list. Mr Athey is a retired physicist whose working career was primarily at the Food and Drug Administration where he was chief of one of the medical device labs.
Mr Athey received his doctorate in physics and biochemistry at Tufts University, and undergraduate (engineering) and masters (math) degrees at Auburn University. For several years during the 1980s, he also taught one course each semester in the electrical engineering department of the University of Maryland. Besides his interest in genetic genealogy, he is an amateur astronomer and has his own small observatory near his home in Brookeville, MD.
He also runs a very valuable website called the “Haplogroup Predictor” which allows users to input STR data and generate the haplogroup which marks those STR data.
For those who want to know what a haplogroup is, here is a “simple” definition: a haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation.
Still none the wiser? Damn these scientists.
Ok, let’s try it this way: a haplotype is a combination of multiple specific locations of a gene or DNA sequence on a chromosome.
Haplogroups are assigned letters of the alphabet, and refinements consist of additional number and letter combinations, for example R1b or R1b1. Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have different haplogroup designations. In essence, haplogroups give an inisight into ancestral origins dating back thousands of years.
By entering all the STR data inadvertently shown on the Discovery video, a 99.6 percent fit with the R1b haplogroup is revealed.
The significance is, of course, that R1b is the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Europe reaching its highest concentrations in Ireland, Scotland, western England and the European Atlantic seaboard — in other words, European through and through.
So much for the Afro-centrists and others who have derided the very obvious northwestern European appearance of a large number of the pharonic mummies. It seems like March of the Titans was right after all…
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CN
You do parroting very well, when I change my posting format you change your format to mine.
Cush/Kush as Semites – http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T2456 – regarding the absence of Negroes as not being Ethiopians of the old-hat Hamito-Semitic language/race construct of early racial segregationists, like Coon. This racial segregation was to claim that the North Afrikan Ethiopian was NOT descended from so-called Sub-Sa-Ha-Ara-An peoples, and was therefore to be CLUSTERED with the Caucasian and not with the so-called Negroes has been proven GENETICALLY FALSE.
“But the Y-chromosome clade defined by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35, PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of phenotypically defined races and true breeding populations across a great geographical expanse. African peoples with a range of skin colors, hair forms and physiognomies have substantial percentages of males whose Y chromosomes form closely related clades with each other..”
(S O Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al. “Conceptualizing human variation,” Nature Genetics 36, S17 – S20 (2004)
“.. there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being ‘‘racially’’ different, with ‘‘racially’’ implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 TRANSITION, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that EMERGED in AFRICA probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the BIALLELIC MARKERS M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that UNITES numerous PHENOTYPICALLY VARIANT African populations from the SUPRA-Saharan, Saharan, and SUB-Saharan regions..”
(S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679–689, 2004.)
http://www.geocities.ws/nilevalleypeoples/keitadnaquotes.htm
Nubians not Afrikans? “The M2 lineage is mainly found primarily in ‘‘eastern,’’ ‘‘sub-Saharan,’’ and sub-equatorial African groups, those with the highest frequency of the ‘‘Broad’’ trend physiognomy, but found also in notable frequencies in NUBIA and UPPER EGYPT, as indicated by the RFLP TaqI 49a, f variant IV (see Lucotte and Mercier, 2003; Al-Zahery et al. 2003 for equivalences of markers), which is affiliated with it. The distribution of these markers in other parts of Africa has usually been explained by the ‘‘BANTU migrations,’’ but their presence in the Nile Valley in NON-BANTU speakers cannot be explained in this way. Their existence is better explained by their being present in populations of the early Holocene Sahara, who in part went on to people the Nile Valley in the mid-Holocene, according to Hassan (1988); this occurred long before the ‘‘Bantu migrations,’’ which also do not explain the high frequency of M2 in SENEGAL, since there are NO BANTU speakers there either.”
The Skeptic
I have NEVER dealt in racial-segregationist types YOU do – matter of fact, I have mentioned the mixes MANY time – you on the other hand, insist on everyone being Black/decended from Black, and, that the Ancient Egyptians were black (SOLELY based on your interpretation/hearsay). Drop the anal – retentive attitude – the Ancient(and Modern) Egyptians are Arab Semitic White, NOT, the Black Nubians, or, any other Black tribe. You seem to indicate the Caucasian appearances of most of the Egyptians, is a variation of the Black phenotype – utter NON sense, and, stretching it BEYOND its limits in doing so. You do seem too intelligent to believe such non sense – do take a Genetics course as you do NOT seem to understand what you copy, and, paste – an Physical Anthropology course would not hurt either – even, get some books from the Library. Yes, we can stop, and, agree we, disagree.
CN – I never spoke about the Sphinx, i.e., Shes-IB-Ankh, (the Beloved Living Image) Greek corruption Harmakhis. However, its phenotype has been shown to not be that of Khafra (Kheph-ren) according to the degree of the angle from chin to top of head. Kheph = Offering. Ren = name. You are a broken record going around in endless reiterations about who was or was not Black. I cannot help you with your mental constipation issues regarding genotypes-phenotypes of the phylogenetic tree. You have managed to sound somewhat intelligent in your postings despite devolving into constant racial-segregationist diatribes. No one who comes to this site will learn anything of historical worth from you. Regarding genetics, your interpretation is the multi-regional hypothesis and not the Out of Africa Theory. We shall never meet in agreement and I agree to disagree. http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleo/multiregional.html. Pick another topic. This is so done. Only the insane find profit in exhaustive running on a wheel to nowhere.
The SkepticYour errorisassumimng the BlackNubiansare the Ancuient Egyptians(Arab Semitic White) – TWO DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUPS -YOU keep interpwetican dataas referring to Blacks- specifically , the term,Africans – your veryown data REFUTES YOUR interpetation – I have shoewn this- you claimed several people were Black – I presented links with statues that show they are CAUCASIAN.You indicated the Sphinx head wasBlack – I presented you alinkin which he Sphinx head was compared to King Khafre’s, who it represents – he appears Caucasian – I presented you links with mummy ratios and DNA showing MOSTof Ancient Egypt is Caucasian, EXCEPT fromwhat was talken from SOUTHERN Egypt – part of what was once Nubia. Arabs and Jews are Semitic White- Cush was the brother of Canaan(Arabian Peninsulawhich now include Israel – SEMITIC WHITE). Cushites couldbe Semitic Whites or a MIX. Cush encompasses Nubia(including the part Egypt annexed. and Ethiopia-there are BlackJews in Ethiopia- someindicate they have Jewish heritage frommixing -others are conversionby religion,but ethnically, Black.Friend,your thinking is very illogical. Either you are attempting to claim Blacks are Semitic White, or, Arabs and Jews(Semitic Whites) are Black. NOTHING you presented , indicates this, OR, that the Black Nubians,orm any other Blacks were the Ancient Egyptians.
It was the Kingdom of Medjewi renamed Merowe by the Romans whom warred with the Roman armies – not the so-called Egyptian-White-Semitic-Arab! Coincidentally, as Cleopatra was defeated in 30 BC in a Roman conquest of the Nile Delta, the Afrikan Meri-Qore headed by Queen Khenteke Am-Ani-Qo-Re-(Nebet-Het Iopia) ETHIOPIA,”Settled by the descendants of *Cush (Gn. 10:6), biblical Ethiopia (Gk. Aithiops, ‘burnt face’, cf. Je. 13:23) is part of the kingdom of Nubia stretching from Aswan (*Seventh) S to the junction of the Nile near modern Khartoum.22 – http://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/2001/dec/page2.htm, defended the borders against Rome – not White-Semitic-Arabs.
This time I had to try five times to post. At any rate, you also have to explain why it was that the Afrikan Kingdom of Kush was the defender of Israel. By your geographic demarcation Kush in the Sudan would have to travel up the Nile into Egypt then into Israel to defend them. Explain how that was possible from such a distance, i.e., between Israel and the Sudan? Your argument that Black-Afrikans did not live in the Nile Delta is misinformed at best since the Medjai warriors of the Afrikan Kingdoms was pivotal in the history of Israel and not the so-called White-Semitic-Arab. See history of 10th BC – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_century_BC.
CN – You have finally made a statement that makes sense and does not contradict what any one who has studied the population already knew, i.e., that one could be both a so-called Egyptian and a so-called Nubian. See article – Ancient Egyptians “airbrushed” out of history one of their most humiliating defeats in battle, academics believe. In what the British Museum described as the discovery of a lifetime, a 3,500-year-old inscription shows that the Sudanese kingdom of Kush came close to destroying its northern neighbour. The revelation is contained in 22 lines of sophisticated hieroglyphics deciphered by Egyptologists from the British Museum and Egypt after their discovery in February in a richly decorated tomb at El Kab, near Thebes, in Upper Egypt. Vivian Davies, Keeper of the museum’s Department of Ancient Egypt and Sudan, said: “In many ways this is the discovery of a lifetime, one that changes the textbooks. “We’re absolutely staggered by it.” You have used being an Egyptian the way being a Jew is used as a racial designation, when in fact the difference between an ancient so-called Egyptian and a non-Egyptian was membership in the various priesthoods. The animosity between the Egyptian and the non-Egyptian kingdoms was sovereignty, cultural assimilation, indigenous resources such as gold, and the ability to trade using the courses of the Nile.
Mr E.N Teritus
My answer to The Skeptic answers your question as to where they Black Nubians are now – they are the Modern Black Sudanes(formerly NubiaKeme)and the Blacks in the sothwestern quarter of Egypt(formerly part of Nubia/Kemet – annexed in 1521 B.C. – Modern day Black Egyptions(NATIONALITY, NOT Arab Semitic White ethnicity – similar to Black Germans (NATIONALITY) NOT, Indo European Aryan White(ETHNICITY) – the Skeptic has a problem separating ethnicity from Nationality.
The Skeptic
FIRST – the Asiatic are ARAB SEMITIC WHITE – part of the ME lies in Asia(FORMERLY, the ME used to be called NEAR East, as opposed to the FAR EAST – TRUE ASIANS(Orientals) – mentioned this at least half a dozen times – guess it doesn’t sink in with you), part in North Africa, and part in the ME.NOW, not only does it NOT SINK IN, you are becoming PARANOID – I have “NO CONTROL” over formatting – I suggest you try the WEBMASTERS/WEBSITE owner, who DO. THIRD – the Ancient Egyptians and Black Nubians had a love hate relationship – many times having trade arrangements – guess you KEEP MISSING THE FACT THE TA -SETI, AN ADVANCED BLACK NUBIAN TRIBE TAUGHT THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS THE HIEROGLYPHS AT A TIME WHEN THEY WERE FRIENDLY – eventually, the Ancient Egyptians over powered the Black Nubians, absorbing part of their Kingdom to make up the lowere Southwestern quarter of Egypt – many of my Black friends from their STILL call themselves NUBIANS, rather than Egyptians – modern Sudan is what is left of Nubia/Kemet. If you even, half kept up with the News – Northern Arab Semitic White Muslims and Southern Black Sudanese Muslims in Darfur, Sudan, are having an ethnoreligious war. The Black Sudanese think the Arab Semitic Whites want to make Sudan part of Egypt. Sudan is often times considered part of the considered part of the Middle East – geographically – no – culturally, yes). Sudan’s President, President Omar Hassan al-Bashir,is a BLACK MUSLIM, who sides with the Arabs, forming the Black Sudanese rebel group called the Janjaweed, often MISTAKENLY called BLACK ARABS(no such thing), who have accepted Arabic food, customs, and language – a Nationality, NOT an Ethnic group(Arab Semitic White) – a Black Man can no more be Arab Semitic White, than an Arab Semitic White can be a Black man – there are mixes – Hamites, Moors, Berbers – which also often include small amounts of Jewish Semitic, and Indo European Aryan, White. We have been through these FACTS several times now – not sure why you are NOT comprehending them.
Not-Semitic Writing as of 3200 BC – Hieratic has had influence on a number of other writing systems. The most obvious is that on Demotic, its direct descendant. Related to this are the Demotic signs of the Meroitic script and the borrowed Demotic characters used in the Coptic alphabet and Old Nubian.” HOW THE LANGUAGE CHANGED: “Like most other Afroasiatic languages, Old and Middle Egyptian have a Verb–Subject–Object word order. This does not hold true for Late Egyptian, Demotic, and Coptic.” Late Egyptian – 1350 BC Amarna Period. Demotic – 650 BC. Parent systems – Hieratic – Demotic. Child systems – Meroitic – 700 – 300 BC, Coptic – 300 AD. 3200 BC Nubia to Amarna – 1350. 3200 BC to Medjewi (Meroitic) – 700 – 300 BC. and Old Nubian. So, it makes no sense to claim White-Semitic-Arab/Arabic since there is no literature to support that contention. ALSO – Outside of the Nile Valley, many of the signs used in the Byblos syllabary were apparently borrowed from Old Kingdom hieratic signs.[10] It is also known that early Hebrew used hieratic numerals.[11]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieratic. I do apologize for cramming in these posts but this is done in case you one again play with my posting format and posting frequency – changing the rules of the game to suit yourself.
CN – From the start of the kingdom, the so-called Asiatics – the ones you call White-Semitic-Arabs – were nomads of the desert. Arabic was not one of the early Semitic languages spoke in Ancient Qemt, and it is only politics and propaganda which use Semitic (Arabic) to translate the hieratic: “Old, Middle, and Late Egyptian were all written using hieroglyphs and hieratic. Demotic was written using a script derived from hieratic; ITS APPEARANCE IS VAGUELY SIMILAR TO MODERN ARABIC SCRIPT AND IS ALSO WRITTEN FROM LEFT TO RIGHT(ALTHOUGH THE TWO ARE NOT RELATED). Coptic is written using the Coptic alphabet, a modified form of the Greek alphabet with a number of symbols borrowed from Demotic for sounds that did not occur in Ancient Greek.” Do you realize now how idiotic it is to claim White-Semitic-Arab when no such literary-cultural-history was revealed? Do you also realize that even if Arabic IS used to translate the hieratic this is mutually exclusive from the hieroglphs? Hieratic : Hieratic refers to a cursive writing system that was used in the provenance of the pharaohs in EGYPT and NUBIA that developed alongside the hieroglyphic system,[1] to which it is intimately related. It was primarily written in ink with a reed brush on papyrus, allowing scribes to write quickly without resorting to the time-consuming hieroglyphs.” NOTE: In the Proto-Dynastic Period of Egypt, hieratic first appeared and developed alongside the more formal hieroglyphic script. It is AN ERROR to view HIERATIC as a DERIVATIVE of hieroglyphic writing. Indeed, the earliest texts from Egypt are produced with ink and brush, with NO INDICATION THEIR SIGNS are DESCENDANTS OF HIEROGLYPHS. True monumental hieroglyphs carved in stone did not appear until the 1st DYNASTY, well AFTER HIERATIC had been established as a SCRIBAL practice. The two writing systems, therefore, are related, parallel developments, rather than a single linear one.[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieratic. So who taught the so-called Egyptians hieroglyps?
CN – Somehow you managed to change the posting format, perhaps – just for me – which limits my posts to one paragraph having one recognized end-return. This format is ugly and does not allow for isolating specific sentences – information. Fine. I have tried to post four times before changing my usual format to the format in the above post. What is next? Only paragraphs containing the words White and/or Caucasian? Perhaps you have me on a limit post frequency coding? Cool. So far you have shown your search for truth extends to the tip of your nose! You will become cross-eyed, dude – look up and out to the horizon! Continued in next post…
And…where are they now!
Tomb Reveals Ancient Egypt’s Humiliating Secret – Ancient Egyptians “airbrushed” out of history one of their most humiliating defeats in battle, academics believe. In what the British Museum described as the discovery of a lifetime, a 3,500-year-old inscription shows that the Sudanese kingdom of Kush came close to destroying its northern neighbour. The revelation is contained in 22 lines of sophisticated hieroglyphics deciphered by Egyptologists from the British Museum and Egypt after their discovery in February in a richly decorated tomb at El Kab, near Thebes, in Upper Egypt. Vivian Davies, Keeper of the museum’s Department of Ancient Egypt and Sudan, said: “In many ways this is the discovery of a lifetime, one that changes the textbooks. “We’re absolutely staggered by it.” The inscription details previously unknown important battles unprecedented “since the time of the god” the beginning of time. Experts now believe that the humiliation of defeat was one that the Ancient Egyptians preferred to omit from their historical accounts. Contemporary Egyptian descriptions had led historians to assume that the kingdom of Kush was a weak and barbaric neighbouring state for hundreds of years, although it boasted a complex society with vast resources of gold dominating the principal trade routes into the heart of Africa. It did eventually conquer Egypt, in the 8th century BC. Mr. Davies, who headed the joint British Museum and Egyptian archaeological team, said: “Now it is clear that Kush was a superpower which had the capacity to invade Egypt. It was a huge invasion, one that stirred up the entire region, a momentous event that is previously undocumented.” Continued next post…
The Skeptic
Guess you will always remain blind – gee – Amenemhat I looks Caucasian to me:
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html
I guess you will keep insisting the Caucasian appearance of all these Ancient Egyptian Kings i s just another variation of Black African phenotypes – right, keep telling your self that – many cultures have incorporated words, phrases, vowels, and so on from other cultures into their own language – guess you interpret that to mean it changes their ethnic make up – right, keep believing that.
Show me anything that indicates Blacks were the Ancient Egyptians – all you have shown me, is the Ancient Nubians were Black – see the difference? I accept the Nubians were Black, and, for about 100 years, Egyptian Pharaohs, that however, does NOT mean the Ancient Egyptians were Black – even the people YOU presented, have a Caucasian look – perhaps you attribute that to the variation of the Black phenotype – A VERY LONG STRETCH – DNA says otherwise.
CN
The Eye of Sa-Ara – http://www.egyptianmyths.net/udjat.htm
You have confused the Ta-Meri Qore priests with (a)Men-Kha-Ua’ajat’Ara (Menkhaura). You missed the point as usual by insisting a racist perception of a stereotypical-Black-Afrikan-phenotype.
Ua’asta’utjat Ara = Eye of Sa-Ara (Su-Te-Nen Ta-Seti)
The forms of Ua’asta’utjat are usually Utjat, Utjet, Udjat, Udjet, Wadjet, and I have even seen Utchat, whih is blatantly modern as there were no ‘Cc’s’ in the ancient language.
However, the Ua’ is the logogram of the (bird)Mother – Vulture- Guardian of the People. She is the symbol of wisdom from the Mother to the Priest-King-Chief-Sar-Ser, etc,
(a)Men-Kha-Ua’asta’utjat Sa-Ara is not the name of a person as much as the title of the priest-king in his/her function as a High Priest of the Temple of Kha-Amen (Kha-Amin, Kha-Amon, Kha-Amun). Het-Ma-Haru Sa Kha-Amun Tje-Khus-Ati (also Dje-Khu-Sa-Ati/Dje-khu-ti). In other words we read Kush instead of Khus!
Again, the best language used to transcribe the ancient Medju Netjer (Words of the Gods) from a Nubian-Nilo-Saharan one is not Arabic! Therefore, when the translations reject the in situ original non-semitic language in favor of the copied to Semitic (Aramaic, Arab, Hebrew, etc.) to Greek to Latin languages; the interpretations are faulty and not based on the culture of the writers but the cultural interpretation of the foreigners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct_of_Amun-Re
“The earliest artifact found in the area of the temple is a small, eight-sided column from the Eleventh Dynasty, which mentions Amun-Re.[1] The tomb of Intef II mentions a ‘house of Amun’, which implies some structure, whether a shrine or a small temple is unknown.[1] The ancient name for Karnak, Ipet-Sut (usually translated as ‘most select of places’) only really refers to the central core structures of the Precinct of Amun-Re, and was in use as early as the 11th Dynasty, again implying the presence of some form of temple before the Middle Kingdom expansion.[2]”
Ipet-Sut by proper form is Sai-Pe-Ta-Su-Te-Nen-Ha-Nesi. To recognize the location of Heka Kas-Uta written Heka kasut is to see the name Kas as the Egyptians called the Kingdom of Kush. Uta is the short form of Ua’ast – again the symbol of the vulture.
Intef by proper form is Sai-an-aat-Su-Ateph as in the red/white crown of Ta-Seti.
These corrections are learned from the Sa Ha-Ba-Kas (stone)Shabaka. The following link is pretty good for words keeping in mind the caution of translation.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=1&t=17326083
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenemhat_I
Amenemhat I’s Horus name, Wehemmesu, which means renaissance or rebirth, is an allusion to the Old Kingdom period, whose cultural icons and models (such as pyramidal tombs and Old Kingdom artistic motifs) where emulated by the Twelfth Dynasty kings after the end of the First Intermediate Period. The cult of the king was also promoted during this period, which witnessed a steady return to a more centralized government.[10]
Whether or not so-called Menkhaura does not look like an East Afrikan man is really not my problem, now is it? I can not make a blind man to see.
The Skeptic
King Merikarie looks Caucasian to me:
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/menkaure/menkaure-statue.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MenkauraAndQueen-CloseUpOfKingsFace_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston.png
Guess you will say he falls in the range of Black Nubians – I think NOT.
But CN,
So, there are somethings you do not know?…yet you go on thinking White-Semitic-Arab…you are on the wrong side of modern knowledge.
Ta-Meri-Qore (Kare/Kore) Priesthood
http://egypt.thetao.info/merikare.htm
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/merikare_papyrus.htm
“The Teachings have been attributed to a Herakleopolitan FIP king, Kheti III (Wahkare Akhtoy III). The Leningrad Papyrus, which is translated here, was written by a scribe called Khamwese during the Middle Kingdom.”
-Merikare: c. 2100 BCE, possibly the son of Wahkare Akhtoy III (Kheti III. Kheti-Qore (Kare/Kore). By proper form, Akhtoy is Akh = The High Priest who speaks to the Ancestors. To = Tu (your/our). Y = ? The placement of Toy=Tu as in (a)Men-Tu-Hotep.
So-called Nubians NOT Asiatics/White-Semitic-Arabs-
Dynasty Eleven – Middle Kingdom
Theban (O.C. 2134 – 1991,includes Meri-Qore Priesthood 2100 BC, so-called Nubians recorded for Egyptian unification –
Montuhotep I (Tepy-a)
Intef I (Sehertawy)
Intef II (Wahankh)
Intef III (Nakhtnebtepnefer)
Montuhotep II (Nebhetepre)
Montuhotep III (Sankhkare)
Montuhotep IV (Nebtawyre)
Amen-em-Hat I, etc. by form Amen-Sem-Het-As Su An (Assuan/Thebes)
Hidden God = Aman/Amen/Amin/Amun/Amon
Funerary Priest (Leopard Skin wearers) = Sem
Consecrate = Het
Temple = As Su An (Assuan/Aswan/Thebes)
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/middlekingdom.html
To know the language is to know the forms, i.e., Ba, Ka, Kas, Kha, Khu, Ta. There can be no Ta-Meri without Ba-Meri or Meri-Ba. The Hebrew language adds an ‘h’ so Meribah, which the Bible translates as “Bitter Waters,” a spiritual concept and not a literal drink of water. The smiting of the rock in Deuteronomy 32 is the place of the kingdom of Im-Seti, one of the Sons of Horu.
Yes, you have provided links with expert opinion and DNA studies that support that Black-Afrikans cannot be Semitic, so what does that have to do with truth?
One of the precepts of the Meri-Qore priest was “To not scorn the gods of foreign nations”…does that sound like a spiritual precept or a religious one? Either way, no White-Semitic-Arab could have imagined such a humanitarian construct as “live and let live.”
And the people said, “Amen.”
The Skeptic
Ta – Seti s a Black Nubuian/Sudanese/Kemitian tribe, NOT a place, I have mentioned several times – AGAIN, part of Egypt’s sothwestern corner was Nubia/Sudan/Kemet- annexed in 1520 B.C.. They taught the Ancient Egyptians, the Hieroglyphs.
Can you provide any links backing what you say – I could find nothing, quote: “It is also important for the reader to know that Ta-Meri was a priesthood, so the Nesi-Am Su Ta-Meri is not a geographical place per se. Ta-Meri is shown in the Book of Exodus as Meribah by forms Ab-Meri, Ba-Meri, Ka-Meri, Ta-Meri. Meri-Qore, Biblical Kore 2 Chronicles 31:14.”? I have provide links with expert opinion, and, DNA studies.
CN
Firstly, I did not call you a racist…..I said you need to let go of the racial propaganda…dude.
Quote me correctly, I wrote:
You really have to let the racial propaganda go dude. Quite a few posts back, your opinions became the facts you write about rather than the well researched modern information about the ancient people of Qemt. I have already addressed the facts and the only people of today’s Egypt who may claim ancestry with the ancient people are the COPTs who are not Arabs.”
If a new reader to the site SEARCHES OLDER COMMENTS he or she will find several reference books regarding the Het As Su An (Assuan)Anu of the literature translated by Petrie. It does not matter how often the claim of White-Semitic-Arab is made, the literature always speaks of the prominence of the priests in the temples, the three temples of renown being Abdjus, Memphis and Thebes (As Su An/Assuan). It is to the mention of the Assuan/Aswan priests the literature speaks.
CN likes to use the term Annexed Nubia while totally ignoring that Nubia is Ta-Seti and Ta-Seti is as prominent in the literature as Ta-Meri.
It is also important for the reader to know that Ta-Meri was a priesthood, so the Nesi-Am Su Ta-Meri is not a geographical place per se. Ta-Meri is shown in the Book of Exodus as Meribah by forms Ab-Meri, Ba-Meri, Ka-Meri, Ta-Meri. Meri-Qore, Biblical Kore 2 Chronicles 31:14.
Qore is “Afrikan King”.
In order to restore the text YAHWEH must be deleted and PTAH-Ta-Tenen must be returned. Where we see Levi substitute Meri-Qore!
Cos Seven
You have followed my answers long enough – I have stated King Tut appears MIXED – DNA states MOSTLY Caucasian – ).4 something else – I am sure you can tell most Black people from other ethnic groups – DNA DEFINITELY can – and, yes, certain haplomarkers are associated with ONLY certain ethnic groups – having many friends of many backgrounds, I am relatively adept at seeing at least mixed traits, not always the right ethnic mix, but mixed. In your photo – King Tuts jaw, lips, and nose are more Caucasian than anything else – his eyes and cheek bones do NOT appear Caucasian – I have seen ears like that in all ethnic backgrounds except Asian ( there may be some – just, have not seen it). With DNA and skeletal measurements, the accuracy of a person’s ethnicity is very high. In the image you provided, King Tut looks very much like Michael Jackson at a certain point in his “ARTIFICIAL” transformation (plastic surgery) to look Caucasian – see this link: http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
Man, you are deluded if you really think King Tut had “caucasian” features. By the way, “expert opinion” is hearsay and a translation of something you cant read is also hearsay. Again your criterion for deciding what “race” a skull shape or even a type of lips is that bogus and fraudulent one concocted during the time of slavery and the time that followed when social scientists etc were building such “facts” to maintain their world order.
http://cdn.wn.com/pd/a7/07/132a9deeb54b3fe230cc0d84c53b_grande.jpg
If you think that is a caucasian it may be time for you to take your medication. Also notice his earlobes. There are no european cultures that do that. NONE! Only Africans, Indians and Native Americans.
http://www.sliceofscifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/1104071125_m_tut7_skull2.jpg
Now notice the mummy of the same man in the link above. Compare the features. Do they not have the same “caucasian” appearance as the Khufra mummy? This should tell you that such features on a mummy are no index of what the man looked like when alive. A thin lipped mummy doesnt equate to thin lips when alive. Even a fool can deduce that the fluids which give lips fullness would have evaporated in the thousands of years that have elapsed.
And if you think that Khafre has a “caucasian” nose ….
http://euler.slu.edu/~bart/egyptimage/kings/Khafre-Leipzig.jpg
I suggest you get out more and look at some “black” peoples noses from the front and then the side. Also I dont suggest that “black” = African. Im useing that term to sarcastically make the point you wish to avoid getting which is that the so called “black” people, many of whom do descend from West African nations which received immigrants from the fallen Kemetic nation around the time of the Roman conquest, are the same people genetically as King Tut and Khufra and all their contemporaries. And just as most “blacks” have europeans, asians etc in their families so did some of the Kemetic population. But make no mistake that the dominant “gene” was that which you would call “black.” I again generalize with ‘black’ because Africa is a continent that sprang forth all the face and body types, all of whom were labeled “black” in America and the western world in the modern age.
Of course you will retort with the same hearsay from a website and use the term semitic white again and again… go ahead….
Riddle me this: What group has a gene that no other has? What “race?” Do “semitic whites” or “semitic arabs” or whatever have a gene that no other race has? Can you answer that without looking on the net for someone elses answer in the event that the question is asked and answered on the internet? If not then you dont have any understanding of the genetic “facts” you cite.
Cos Seven
Again, you make the same mistake our friend the Skeptic makes =-a ssuming African means Black – the two are NOT the same – neither have YOUR souces said so – also any skeletal information you provided came from SOUTHERN Egypt – part of Nubia that was ANNEXED – akin to going to burial grounds on an Indian reservation, getting samples, and declaring all of America was Indian.
Cactuar
We are talking Semite as in ARABS , NOT as in European Jews(Khazaria). There is NO indication of sluce doors in the Pyramids – if any existed, the weight of the sliding limestone doors would have ground the tracks down. Limestone is NOT the toughest of materials.
OK – EXPERT OPINION and DNA Evidence says most of the Egyptian mummies are White, NOT Black Nubians( some from Southern Egypt are, the part of Nubia(Kemet that was annexed). The Caucasian features of King Tut and Khafre(Sphinx head), are hardly Black features – narrow lips, pronounced narrow nose, skull shape, granted possible small amounts Black heritage.
He became,’Semitic’ in Khazaria.
Actually it wasn’t even him but some knob worshippers that were raped to sow the money changing charlatans seed before that sect was obliterated by evolution.
What sort of people tolerated that abuse,and why do they believe others must also?
CN your “evidence” IS hearsay. You call it facts but its really the hearsay and opinion of people looking at bars on a sheet that represent adenine, cysteine, and two other acids. You know damn well you cant independently confirm any so called facts you cite. Its hearsay that you adhere to simply because you ARE a so called white semite and it bolsters your ego to think you have a claim to the greatness of Kemet.
However you choose to ignore the obvious and apparent EVIDENCE of who the Kemau were and who King Tut was; all the statues and reliefs. Most of these depict features that are generally African. Usually the hair is not depicted on the men … or women for that matter, but when it is it is USUALLY clearly “black” hair. It is not close to the scalp and flat as is “caucasian” hair. The lips are full and not usually thin although thinner lips are found in many African peoples who have had no relations with Caucasians.
Im not going to type any more. CN you have obviously shyed away from any “evidence” which would cause you to reconsider whether your ancestors were one of those “semites” who were being held by ther hair in many ancient Kemitic works.
Maybe like the one in front here:
http://ascendingpassage.com/Abu-Simbel-Rameses-smite-Cherubini.jpg
or perhaps lowered as sluice gates,how thick are they,is there an aperture above or below these stones?
The Skeptic
Dude, the only racist here is YOU – I have backed my FACTS against your HEARSAY – you keep equating Africans with Blacks – none of your sources say this – ONLY YOUR interpretation.You can’t accept the Arabs were the Ancient and are, the Modern, Egyptians. There is simply NO INFORMATION, backing the Black Nubians, or, any other Black tribe, were the Ancient Egyptians, in fact they, in many ways delineate themselves from the Black Nubian.
Cactuar
My previous explanation still stands either humans did NOT do it, or, with the help of an advanced civilization did it, or both.
I don’t know about you but i’m still waiting on details of these smooth doors and handles,presumably pulled into place by hand during construction.
CN
You really have to let the racial propaganda go dude. Quite a few posts back, your opinions became the facts you write about rather than the well researched modern information about the ancient people of Qemt. I have already addressed the facts and the only people of today’s Egypt who may claim ancestry with the ancient people are the COPTs who are not Arabs.
The Skeptic
In all your copying/pasting – you have presented NO EVIDENCE – the Black Nubians, or any other Black tribe where the Ancient Egyptians – ONLY YOUR INTERPRETATION that Africans = BlacK = Ancient Egyptians – NONE of your sources say that, even indicating Blacks/Black Nubians are different then the Ancient Egyptians.
This post is not for CN, because he YAWN, already knows everything….
“A major problem in tracing the flow of influence between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa is that despite insistent attempts to prove the identity of some aspects of Egypt with some aspects found far across the continent, the cultural matrices are not mutually coherent. Relationships exist on a relatively diffused level, elements passed through many intermediaries, and some elements derived from traditions of remote origin, possibly in the Neolithic Sahara.
Closer at hand, we can see actual relations more convincingly. If we accept the cultures of Neolithic Sudan as sub-Saharan, they played a strong, and possibly decisive, part in the original development of Egypt.
In the 3rd millennium B.C., new cultures of sub-Saharan type came to dominate the Nile from the Fourth Cataract to Aswan and played a significant role in Egypt down to about 1600 B.C.
Finally, Kush, in the 1st millennium B.C., may have had an immediate origin near the Nile, but the ancient Sudanese sub-Saharan culture was visible in its early phases and became more pronounced as the center moved to Meroe, which is almost as far south as Tombouctou.
This is key –
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed.
Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present.
On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology.
Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on.
Bibliography
Adam, S., with the collaboration of J. Vercoutter. 1981. The importance of Nubia: A link between central Africa and the Mediteranean. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. G. Mokhtar, 226-244. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Camps, G. 1982. Beginnings of pastoralism and cultivation in north-west Africa and the Sahara: Origins of the Berbers. In The Cambridge history of Africa, vol. 1, ed. J. D. Clark, 548-623. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Debono, F. 1981. Prehistory in the Nile Valley. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 1, ed. J. Ki-Zerbo, 634-655. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Hakem, A. A., with the collaboration of I. Hrbek and J. Vercoutter. 1981. The civilization of Napata and Meroe. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. G. Mokhtar, 198-325. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Kemp, B. J. 1982. Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom and Second Intermediate Period in Egypt. In The Cambridge history of Africa, vol. 1. ed. J. D. Clark, 658-769. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Kendall, T. 1989. Ethnoarchaeology in Meroitic studies. Meroitica 10: 625-745.
Leclant, J. 1981. The empire of Kush: Napata and Meroe. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. G. Mokhtar, 278-297. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Mauny, R. 1978. Trans-Saharan contacts and the Iron Age in West Africa. In The Cambridge history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. J. D. Page, 272-341. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
O’Connor, D. 1982. Egypt, 1552-664 B.C. In The Cambridge history of Africa, vol. 1. ed. J. D. Clark, 830-940. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Sherif, N. M. 1981. Nubia before Napata (- 3100 to -750). In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. G. Mokhtar, 245-277. Berkeley: University of California Press: 245-77.
Shinnie, P. L. 1978. The Nilotic Sudan and Ethiopia, In The Cambridge history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. J. D. Page, 210-271. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Vercoutter, J. 1981. Discovery and diffusion of metals and development of social systems up to the fifth century before our era. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 1, ed. J. Ki-Zerbo, 706-729. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Yoyotte, J. 1981. Pharaonic Egypt: Society, economy and culture. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. G. Mokhtar, 112-135. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Zayed, A. H., with the collaboration of J. Devisse. 1981. Egypt’s relations with the rest of Africa. In UNESCO general history of Africa, vol. 2, ed. G. Mokhtar, 136-154. Berkeley: University of California Press.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/sub-saharan.html
CN
It does not matter what you question. The point is all of the early literature is about Ta-Seti, i.e, Qutsul, and the so-called Nubian hereditary princes. You can claim white-semitic-arabs all day long and the literature will not point to them at all.
By the way – these Asiatics are your white-semitic-arabs.
Have a nice day.
Cactaur
At one time, water was more plentiful in Egypt – there is a “THEORY” that the Pyramid blocks, some weighing up to 100 tons, were floated into where they could be worked into place. Permit me to be honest here – NONE of the theories out there except an advanced civilization, using anti gravity machines and laser devices sounds plausible. I recommend you read the book “Forbidden Archeology” by Michael Cremo. Fascinating. The huge amounts of food, water, waste removal, and shelter for over 100,000 humans, plus animals, the tools necessary, the wood for ramps, hemp for rope, and metal for primitive tools, just does NOT cut it – it would have taken them about 100 years to build ONE Pyramid, much less many.What purpose – the ruler would be dead.To move a 1oo ton block, it has been estimated it would take about five elephants. To get the smaller blocks up the ramps – the ramps would have had to be sturdy enough to hold at least a few elephants, human owners, and, the blocks them selves. Believe it, or, not, I like the idea of an advanced civilization(whether from outer space, another dimension, another civilization – Atlantis, Mu, Lemuria,our future, or, any combination, there of) playing a part, or, all of it. in there some where.
The Skeptic
Never questioned the Nubian interaction with the Ancient Egyptians – read my answers AGAIN – the two ethnic groups are DIFFERENT – The Northern half of Sudan is Arab Semitic White – the photo in your link showing some more Caucasian features in the Sudanese, is often used to show Arab/Sudanese admixture – Nubians were rulers in Egypt from about 800-700 B.C..YAWN – tell me something new.
CN
Oh no you didn’t!
I informed you several posts back that if you came back at me with my own selected on-line url quoted genetic studies with an interpretation that conflicted with the truth, i.e., your opinion, that I would regard those responses as “Dead Letters.”
Therefore, I suggested you find another subject. You did not, so I am….
The Nuba ancestry we know:
Mentuhotep I was a local Egyptian prince at Thebes during the First Intermediate Period. He became the first openly acknowledged ruler of the Eleventh dynasty by assuming the title of first “supreme chief of Upper Egypt” and, later, declaring himself king over all Egypt.[2] He is named as a nomarch in Thutmose III’s royal list of the ‘Hall of Ancestors’ monument at Karnak.[3] He was also the father of Intef I, his successor.
References – Not Opinion
^ Clayton, Peter A. Chronicle of the Pharaohs: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson. p72. 2006. ISBN 0-500-28628-0
^ Nicholas Grimal, A History of Ancient Egypt, Blackwell Books: 1992, p.143
^ Grimal, p.143
2134 BC – (a)Men-tu-Hotep I
“By the First Intermediate Period, Nubians deeply penetrated Egyptian life, most prominently as soldiers but also as administrators. At least one Nubian cemetery is known north of Aswan, at Wadi Kubbaniya. Some women rose high in the Theban court during the 11th Dynasty, and the ruler they served, Mentuhotep I, may himself have had a Nubian background. There were some cultural contributions from the south. Women with Nubian-style tattoos were found buried in tombs of good quality and prominent position at Thebes. Chapel paintings at Beni Hasan depict men wrestling in a situation so prominent that a symbolic, rather than merely sporting, purpose is implied, perhaps akin to the wrestling customs of the modern Nuba. These are details, as is the thin man who has a big shock of woolly hair and is shown leading cattle to the owners of tombs at Beni Hasan and Meir. This figure is probably also a Nubian. The difficulty of identifying influences from Nubia, or elsewhere in Africa, is intensified by twin problems: the cultures were closely related enough that innovations from the south appear imperceptibly merged into Egyptian life, and Egypt’s vast cultural apparatus rapidly overwhelmed influences from its related neighbors.”
Hall of Ancestors –
Men-tu-Hotep I 2134 BC down to
Amen-Sem-Het I 1994 BC to
Het-Shep-Sua Ta-Pu-an-Netjer – 1458 BC, Greek corruption Hatshepsut. From her to
Taht-Am Su Nesi, Greek corruption, Thutmose.
If you claim suddenly that this claim matrilineal ancestry is symbolic then your revisionist claim that all of the kings were White-Semitic-Arabs is as easily challenged as no such lineage is present in the historical record of Akh-(a)Nu-Ba-Am Su Nesi.
From what we know 2134 BC
(a)Men-Tu-Hotep I better written Amen-Tu-Ha-Ta-Pua
Intef I – He was succeeded by his brother
Intef II
Intef III – He was succeeded by
Men-Tu-Ha-Ta-Pu III – 2010 BC – 1998 BC
^ Clayton, Peter A. Chronicle of the Pharaohs: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson. p72. 2006. ISBN 0-500-28628-0
^ Clayton, Peter A. Chronicle of the Pharaohs: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson. p72. 2006. ISBN 0-500-28628-0
^ Sir Alan Gardiner, Egypt of the Pharaohs, Oxford University Press 1961, p. 120
“Despite being obscure (he is absent from the official king lists in Abydos), the inscriptions show the organization and makeup of a large expedition. The leader of an expedition to Wadi Hammamat, during the second year of Mentuhotep IV’s reign, was his vizier, Amenemhat, who is assumed to be the future king Amenemhet I, the first king of the 12th Dynasty, and Mentuhotep’s immediate successor. It is assumed by some Egyptologists that Amenemhet either usurped the throne or assumed power after Mentuhotep IV died childless. There is currently no archaeological or textual evidence to prove that Mentuhotep was deposed by his Vizier or that he chose Amenemhet to be his designated successor. Mummy or the burial place have not been found.”
Biblical Famine –
“The Asiatics are apparently consuming much of the available foodstuffs. The local rulers, lacking cohesion, seem to be helpless. Famine seems inevitable. The Asiatics have become a threat to be reckoned with. Conditions are ripe for a revolt, given the right leader. Enter Amenhotep I.
“Then a king will come from the South,
Ameny, the justified, by name,
Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt.
He will take the white crown,
He will wear the red crown;
He will join the Two Mighty Ones,
He will please the Two Lords with what they wish
p. 143
The Ipuwer Papyrus :
See now, the transformations of people,
He who did not build a hut is an owner of coffers.
See the judges of the land are driven from the land,
{The nobles} are expelled from the royal mansions.
See, noble ladies are on boards,
Princes in the workhouse,
He who did not sleep on a box owns a bed.
See, the man of wealth lies thirsting,
He who begged dregs has overflowing bowls.
See, those who owned robes are in rags,
He who did not weave for himself owns fine linen.
See, he who did not build a boat for himself owns ships,
Their owner looks at them: they are not his.
…
See, he who had nothing is a man of wealth,
The nobleman sings his praise.
See, the poor of the land have become rich,
The man of property is a pauper.[1]
“Almost the whole of the seventeen page document echoes this theme, with the added description of widespread death and dying. The land is filled with “gangs”.
“Crime is everywhere.
There is blood everywhere, no shortage of dead,
The shroud calls out before one comes near it.
Lo, many dead are buried in the river,
The stream is the grave, the tomb became stream.
Lo, nobles lament, the poor rejoice,
Every town says, “Let us expel our rulers.” p. 151
“At no time does the author hint at the presence of a pharaoh. To the contrary, the text suggests that kingship has been replaced by the combined rule of the most powerful of the rebellious anarchists.”
“See now, the land is deprived of kingship
By a few people who ignore custom.
See now, men rebel against the Serpent,
[Stolen] is the crown of Re, who pacifies the Two Lands.
….
See, the Serpent is taken from its hole,
The secrets of Egypt’s kings are bared.
See, the residence is fearful from want,
Men stir up strife unopposed.
See, the land is tied up in gangs.” p. 156
Gangs – Apiru/Apiri.
Amu is actually Am Su of Am Su Nesi – Su-Dan-Nesi !
“…contrary to the Velikovskian thesis that the Amu (foreigners) within Egypt were Amalekite/Hyksos, Ipuwer states emphatically that the foreign bowmen within Egypt came originally from Nubia and from Libya, the typical recruiting ground for the Egyptian army. Where Asiatics are mentioned in the Ipuwer papyrus it is clearly stated that they remained outside the country, dissuaded from entering Egypt by the continuing rebellion within.
Foreigners … in their [midst] {were} like Asiatics —–. None are found who would stand up to protect them. —– Every man fights for his sisters and protects himself. Is it Nubians? Then we will protect ourselves. There are plenty of fighters to repel the Bowmen. Is it Libyans? Then we will turn them back. The Medjai are content with Egypt.
How then does every man kill his brother? The troops we raised for ourselves have become Bowmen bent on destroying! What has come from it is to let the Asiatics know the state of the land. Yet every foreigner fears it. The experience of the people is that they say: “Egypt will not be given over [to] sand! p. 161
“The references to Asiatics suggest that the Egyptians possibly feared an invasion or infiltration of Asiatics on the eastern extremity of the Delta. Momentarily we will argue that Asiatics did in fact dwell in the wilderness between Gaza and the desert of Shur in the northern Sinai, not far from the eastern edge of the Delta. Furthermore, we will argue that these Asiatics were Amalekites. But nowhere in the Admonitions of Ipuwer is the claim made that Egypt was invaded from without by these Asiatics. The Amalekites must have remained in that area as a settled population.”
Moreover,
“From what has been said thus far it follows that Egypt, in the decades following the end of the 11th dynasty, was ruled by multiple native Egyptian “nomarchs”, each claiming pharaonic status. In these tumultuous times the reigns of these nomarchs were often of short duration. The casualty rate was high. This explains Manetho’s lengthy list 13th and 14th dynasty kings, 60 southern (Diospolite) and 76 northern kings (of Xois), all bearing respectable Egyptian names, filling the interval between 1445 and 1341 B.C.
Heb seb Ta-Seti Sem Horu ‘form-Greek’corruption = Horemheb- Last Pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty from 1319 BC to late 1292 BC. Biblical ‘Horites’.
“So much for the ethnicity of the kings of dynasties 13 and 14….”
http://www.kent.net/DisplacedDynasties/ExodusChapter5.htm
2134 – 1291 BC ! [All were] Am-Su-Pe-Ha-Nesi Geb-Ta-Seti. Qutsul (Ta-Seti) 2134 – 1291 = 843 Years of Nuba influence via viceroys in military, priests-kings, administrators, temple service, etc.
“It is said of Amenhotep in the passage just quoted that his primary purpose was to unite the north and south of the country, a tall task for any Egyptian ruler at any time in history, but particularly so in a large country long dominated by multiple rulers and now occupied by countless foreigners. We would not be surprised if he required assistance from his sons, one of whom might be considered a joint ruler with himself. The Prophecies concludes with a brief description of the initial activities of Amenhotep I.”
http://www.kent.net/DisplacedDynasties/ExodusChapter5.htm
White-Semitic-Arabs…..?
“Asiatics will fall to his sword,
Libyans will fall to his flame,
Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him.
One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler,
To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt;
They shall beg water as supplicants,
So as to let their cattle drink.
Then Order will return to its seat.”
p. 143
CN’s personal motto:
“Don’t confuse me with the facts.”
http://www.ancientsudan.org/ethnicity.htm
I’ll be back.
So many mysteries though,did they build these shapes to appear tumbledown even when new?
Did they utilise their obvious quarrying and mining skills to bring in water underground,may sail oats along these catacombs.
Building in the heat of the day is thirsty work,10,000 labourers drinking a gallon a day is 10,000 gallons.
The math is in no doubt,indeed they would need toilet facilities,you surely dont shit where you stand whilst building tomds of the gods.
Removal of sand to expose your bedrock,don’t want no Tower of Pisa like lean,that ould come later.
What a tit.
Cataur
Wrong – Anubis had a Jackal type head NOT a human head, and, lion body. Khafre’s head may have been some other type of head, then altered to look like his – no indication it was a Jackal’s head. Water IS THE MEDIUM in a level.
Here is another morsel,why wait for laser levels when water will do.
The ‘Sphinx’ is what remains of the vandalised Anubis.
Baron Gifelte
The Sphinx’s nose being Caucasian???
The Skeptic
Expected that answer when you can’t prove anything you say – nothing knew.
CN
Dead letter.
I’m savouring the Victory,hmm,fine nose..
The Skeptic
Now you are attempting to claim Semites are Black – not so by DNA, and, anthropological methods – I have covered this enough times with you. The Nubians were Black – Anwar Sadat in modern terms, is mixed – Mulatto if you understand that better. – matrilinear does NOT CHANGE DNA.
QUOTE, fom you information – Lembe – admixed – Black/Semitic as in White as in Arabs and Jews):“A genetic study in 1996 suggested that more than 50% of the Lemba Y-chromosomes are Semitic in origin;[17] a subsequent study in 2000 reported more specifically that a substantial number of Lemba men carry a particular haplotype of the Y-chromosome known as the Cohen modal haplotype (CMH), as well as, a haplogrup of Y-DNA Haplogroup J found amongst some Jews and in other populations across the Middle East.[18][19]
Studies have also suggested that there is no SEMITIC FEMALE contribution to the Lemba gene pool.[20]
One particular sub-clan within the Lemba, the Buba clan, is considered by the Lemba to be their priestly clan, while among Jews, the Kohanim are the priestly clan. The Buba clan carried most of the CMH found in the Lemba. Among Jews the marker is also most prevalent among Jewish Kohanim, or priests. As recounted in Lemba oral tradition, the Buba clan “had a leadership role in bringing the Lemba out of Israel” and into Southern Africa.[21]”
Buba by ancient form is Sebau/Sabau-Ba the dreaded enemy of the ancient Egyptians! I.E., the so-called HYKSOS!
“More recently, Mendez et al. (2011) observed that a moderately high frequency of the studied Lemba samples carried Y-DNA Haplogroup T, which is considered to be of NEAR EASTERN origin. However, the Lemba T CARRIERS belonged EXCLUSIVELY to T1b*, which is different from the Jews of NEAR EAST and AFRICA but share a similar estimate expansion time with the T1* Somalis. T1b* has been observed at LOW frequencies in the Bulgarian and Ashkenazi Jews, as well as in a few Levantine populations. [22]”
You must also consider the clades –
“K2-M70 is believed to have originated in Asia after the emergence of the K-M9 polymorphism (45,000–30,000 YEARS BEFORE PRESENT (YBP) (Underhill et al. 2001a). As deduced from the collective data (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002; Semino et al. 2002; present study), K2-M70 individuals, at some later point, proceeded south to Africa. While these chromosomes are seen in relatively high frequencies in Egypt, Oman, Tanzania, Ethiopia, they are especially prominent in the Fulbe 18%( [Scozzari et al. 1997, 1999])”
– J. R. Luis et al.: The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations (Errata), American Journal of Human Genetics, 74: 532-544.”
GENETIC-ETHNIC-UPDATE – your keep playing catch up !
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8900243
“The Lemba are a southern African Bantu-speaking population claiming Jewish ancestry. Allele frequencies at four different Y-specific polymorphic loci, as well as extended-haplotype frequencies that included data from several loci, were analyzed in an attempt to establish the genetic affinities and origins of the Lemba. The results suggest that > or = 50% of the Lemba Y chromosomes are Semitic in origin, approximately 40% are Negroid, and the ancestry of the remainder cannot be resolved. These Y-specific genetic findings are consistent with Lemba oral tradition, and analysis of the history of Jewish people and their association with Africa indicates that the historical facts are not incompatible with theories concerning the origin of the Lemba.”
Oh in case you cannot interpret this scientific information…
The results suggest that > or = 50% of the Lemba Y CHROMOSOMES are SEMITIC in origin, APPROXIMATELY 40% OF THE CHROMOSOMES are NEGROID, and the ANCESTRY of the REMAINDER CHROMOSOMES CANNOT BE RESOLVED.
BLACK-SEMITIC-NEGROES! NOT WHITE-SEMITIC-ARABS.
You have a really bad habit of copying and pasting what I have already inserted into the discussion. I get that this gives you a feeling of superiority to make the new readers to the site think you have a handle on the subject.
I will not make this a long post for that reason since it will likely begin a new page.
Your claim that the Arab genome is older than the Jewish genome is just stupid. Semitic-Arabic is both a language and culture just like Semitic-Jews who speak both Arabic and Hebrew. This is why the Lembe can be both Black-Negroes-Afrikan-Semites.
Possible time of origin – 19,000-34,000 years BP[1]
Possible place of origin – West Asia[2]
Ancestor – LT
Descendants – T1, T*
Defining mutations – L206, M184/Page34/USP9Y+3178, M193, M272, Page 129
Highest frequencies:
Kurru, Bauris, Chians, German Stilfser/Tyroleans, Somalis, Arabs from Somalia Saccensi/Sicilians, Fulbe, Eivissencs, Northeastern Portuguese Jews, Rajus, Mahli, Zoroastrians in Kerman, Bakhtiaris, Southern Egyptians
Both Arabs and Jews! Cultures – not ethnicities-races! You keep conflating phylogeny with geography.
“Evolution is regarded as a branching process, whereby populations are ALTERED OVER TIME and may SPECIATE INTO SEPARATE BRANCHES, hybridize together, or terminate by extinction. This may be visualized in a phylogenetic tree.”
DNA HYBRIDIZATION:
“DNA hybridization generally refers to a molecular biology technique that measures the degree of genetic similarity between pools of DNA sequences. It is usually used to determine the GENETIC DISTANCE BETWEEN TWO SPECIES. When several species are compared that way, the similarity values allow the species to be arranged in a phylogenetic tree; it is therefore one possible approach to carrying out molecular systematics.”
What is the problem with this explanation?
It is the word ‘species’. There is only one human species – the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, therefore, using the phrase between two species implies the species of the homo sapiens sapiens with another species.
This goes to the idea of the DNA of the Neaderthal which by the lastest information MAY comprise up to 4% of modern homo sapiens. 4% Neanderthal Y-DNA compared to the remaining 96% not-Neanderthal is meaningless in the long run.
“It may be observed that the complexion of the men is invariably red, that of the women yellow; but neither of them can be said to have anything in their physiognomy at all resembling the Negro countenance.”
And (at pg 276) they state, with reference to the Sphinx: “The features are Nubian, or what, from ancient representations, may be called Ancient Egyptian, which is quite different from the Negro features.”[10] – this is some what incorrect – the Nubians by most sources were Black. The TRUE Ancient Egyptians(Arab Semitic White) annexed part of Black Nubia to form Egypt’s southwestern corner in 1521 a.d.. The Sphinx’s face is that of King Khafre – whom by other murals and statues can be clearly seen to have Caucasian features, especially when the nose is seen in place – see Sphinx and statue photos compared – HERE : http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
NOW, you still have NOT presented ANY evidence that your sources are refering to Aficans as Black people – ONLY YOUR CLAIMS AS SUCH.By the way, part of the Middle East is in Asia – formerly called the Near East, and, part is in NORTH Africa – Sudan’s Northern half is Arab Semitic White, Somalia, and, Ethiopia’s Northern 1/3 is Arab semitic White, – the Semitic language is part of a group called AfroAsiatic language although Arabs are Semitic White. The Eritreans are a mix of MANY ethic peoples – most notably, Blacks, and Arab Semitic Whites – most of the NON Arabs are acually Blacks of different tribes and/or Nationality. The Copts were a mix of Semitic White peoples – Arabs, Jews, and NON Semitic Whites – Indo European Aryan Whites, and, Blacks – composing a mixed ethnoreligious group – DUDE _ SERIOUSLY, YOUR COMPREHENSION OF GENETIC AND ANTHROPOLOGY IS LACKING – TAKE COURSES IN GENETICS AND ANTHROPOLOGY. You are attempting to say the human ancestor 150,000 years ago was Black WITHOUT PROOF – ONLY your say so- then you mix your opinion in with the information you are copying and pasting. Come on – you are NOT fooling any one, ESPECIALLY, since it is VERY obvious, you do NOT understand what you are copying/pasting.
CN
I wrote,
“Oh, to show you how race was handled in 300 BC Egypt, we read this translation by E.A. Wallis Budge of the Papyrus of Nesi Am Su:
http://books.google.com/books?id=o163SlbfpMwC&pg=PA396&lpg=PA396&dq=papyrusof+nesi+am+su&source=bl&ots=m7i3Gb8uz-&sig=Ga2bJ6y0Na7UElL9zvJQ0IAChWA&hl=en&ei=6aHwTd-NCcXb0QGcoZCeBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=negro&f=false
p.396:
“If any person from any foreign land, whether he be Negro, Ethiopian, or Syrian, shall remove this book, or any thief (?) shall carry it off, may his body never draw near to (the presence of the god); may he never be placed in the cool; may he never breathe the breezes of the north wind; may neither son nor daughter arise to him from his seed; may his name never be remembered on earth through his children; and may he never see the beams of the disk! But if any person shall look upon this book and shall so act that my name and my ka be established among the favoured ones of Osiris, may there be done likewise for him after his death in retribution for what he had done for me.”
YOU COUNTERED WITH,
“Negro and Ethiopian are Black peoples – syrians are Arab Semitic White. Quote,”In other words, when Petrie translated the books of the so-called Egyptians he used the MODERN –RACIAL – ETHNIC IDENTITY OF NEGROES, ETHIOPIANS, and SYRIANS.” 30% of ancient Egypt’s population was Black, Black/Arab mix, 65% Arab Semitic White, 5% all others.”
You finally told the truth by interpreting political-racism for what it was in the 19th Century regarding the Black-Afrikan-ness of ancient Qemt. Thanks. In future post this will be copied and pasted over and again just to reiterate the point that culturally Qemt was matrilineal, therefore, the rule right to rule was through the mother’s line. This is again the case with both Anwar Sadat and King Tut.
In other words, dude…
You can say White-Semitic-Arab by Y-DNA.
I can say Black-Afrikan, i.e., Su-Dan-Nesi – Sudanese on his mother’s side – by mt-DNA which reflects the CULTURE of ancient Qemt versus the MODERN POLITICAL-RACISM of dark-complexioned mixed race people like Anwar Sadat being classified as white-Semitic-Arabs.
Am Su Na-Pa-Ta-Ha-Nesi – The Hereditary Princes – Biblical Phineas which is nothing but an anagram of Pa-Ha-Nesi !
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/menkaure/menkaurequeen.html
“Power in Ancient Egypt descended through the mother’s side of the royal family. The queenship was a mortal manifestation of female power and the feminine prototype, while the pharaoh represented the power of the male and the masculine prototype. The roles of the male pharaoh and the female queen were interpreted as one element in a system of complementary dualities. Many Egyptian stories and folktales revolve around the need to reconcile opposites. It was seen as necessary to maintain a balance between the male and the female. Men are more visible in the historical record because they served as the public manifestation of the power of the (female) throne and as the administrative head of the kingdom.
An heiress-queen may, or may not, be married to the pharaoh. If she was closely related by blood, her “marriage” to the pharaoh was ceremonial. Occasionally, however, she would “marry” and establish as the new pharaoh a man from outside the royal family, which brought about the founding of a new dynasty and introduced new blood into the royal bloodline. Men in the royal family, though, had certain claims to the throne by right of birth and kinship to the heiress-queen who may be their mother, step-mother, sister, half-sister, or niece. But none of the pharaoh’s own children would automatically be his “heir.” Inheritance resided in the female progeny of the heiress-queen.”
Good source of information – http://www.archive.org/stream/ancientegy1914to17brituoft/ancientegy1914to17brituoft_djvu.txt
Champollion-Figeac, Egypte Ancienne. Paris: Collection L’Univers, 1839, p.27
“The earliest examples of disagreement in modern times, regarding the race of the ancient Egyptians, occurred in the work of Europeans and Americans early in the 19th century. For example, in an article published in the New-England Magazine of October 1833, the authors dispute a claim that the Ancient Egyptians “were adduced, affirmed to be Ethiopians.” Among other things, they point out (at pg 275), with reference to tomb paintings:
“It may be observed that the complexion of the men is invariably red, that of the women yellow; but neither of them can be said to have anything in their physiognomy at all resembling the Negro countenance.”
And (at pg 276) they state, with reference to the Sphinx: “The features are Nubian, or what, from ancient representations, may be called Ancient Egyptian, which is quite different from the Negro features.”[10]
In his Principes Physiques de la Morale, Déduits de l’Organisation de l’Homme et de l’Univers, Constantin-François Chassebœuf writes that
“The Copts are the proper representatives of the Ancient Egyptians” due to their “jaundiced and fumed skin, which is neither Greek nor Arab, their full faces, their puffy eyes, their crushed noses, and their thick lips.”[11]
Just a few years later, in 1839, Champollion states in his work “Egypte Ancienne” that the Egyptians and Nubians are represented in the same manner in tomb paintings and reliefs and that “The first tribes that inhabited Egypt, that is, the Nile Valley between the Syene cataract and the sea, came from Abyssinia to Sennar. In the Copts of Egypt, we do not find any of the characteristic features of the Ancient Egyptian population. The Copts are the result of crossbreeding with all the nations that successfully dominated Egypt. It is wrong to seek in them the principal features of the old race.”[12]
Habesha = Abyssina.
Qe-He-Bes-An-Suph
Most of the so-called scholars whom wrote about ‘egypt’ did not take in account the culture which was Afrikan in essence. You have just read three separate opinions as the race-ethnicity of the ancient people (kemi) of Qemt and the dispute always comes out as not Ethiopian even though in the ancient context, Ethiopia was Sudan and not Habesha-Abissinia/Abyssinia. The contention is over how Afrikan was the Ethiopian of the Kingdom of Kush/Cush – apparently not enough to be Negroes. It is a word-game. Not one authority even hints at an White-Semitic-Arab presence until after the 600 AD !
By the way the matrilineal lineage of Cush is now mostly in Eritrea ! Are Eritreans also White?
Modern Cultural Change Due to Arab – Semitic influence due to the religion of Islam :
http://www.law.emory.edu/ifl/region/hornofafrica.html
“Most of the ethnic groups in the Horn are patrilineal, although many, such as the Nuba, appear to have been matrilineal before they converted to Islam (Hicks 1993 1949: 179). One group, the Beg, 1.5 million camel and sheep herders living in eastern Sudan, southern Egypt and Eritrea, appear to have changed their way of tracing descent, perhaps as a result of converting to Islam. They are strongly patrilineal; however, written descriptions of them from the Middle Ages suggest that at that time there were matrilineal. Additionally, there are still significant traces of matrilineality, such as an important relationship between a man and his maternal uncles.
The Hararis in Ethiopia, trace their families bilaterally . The Sinyar, a group of approximately 26,000 people on the Chad/Sudan border almost all of whom are Muslim, have traditionally been matrilineal, though it appears that this tradition is fading . In the Nuba Mountains of the Sudan, people living in the southern part of the mountains tend to be matrilineal, in the north and east they are patrilineal, and in the south-east families are traced bilaterally.”
I am done with topic.
CN = Cerebreal Narcissistic
This post addresses Mt-DNA and ancient Egyptian Culture
Listen, dude. Ancient Egyptian culture was matrilineal –
“The fact that mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is inherited maternally enables the matrilineal lines (or lineages) of individuals to be traced scientifically through genetic analysis, see main article, above.
Mitochondrial Eve (mt-mrca) is the name given by researchers to the woman who, by matrilineal reckoning, is the most recent COMMON ANCESTOR ancestor (mrca) FOR ALL LIVING HUMANS. She is the person from whom ALL mtDNA in living HUMANS IS DERIVED.
She is believed by some to have lived about 150,000 years ago in East Africa, in or near present-day TANZANIA(East Afrika !). The time she lived is calculated scientifically, based on the molecular clock technique of correlating elapsed time with observed genetic drift, see Mitochondrial Eve.
This would be that dreaded Mt-DNA L3 you struggle with, that is ancestral to Mt-DNA M, and N, etc.
Genetic genealogy builds upon (and helps) traditional genealogy – the latter was touched upon in the above section Matrilineal surname. For further information on genetic genealogy, or tracing of matrilineal lines via mtDNA testing, see the article Genealogical DNA test.”
The example already given was Anwar Sadat whose mother was Sua-Dan-Nesi, i.e., Sudanese.
Read what the truth is about mt-DNA and stop playing games.
By virtue of the matrilineal rule, Anwar Sadat, if he was an Egyptian would be a prime example of the “One Drop Rule.”
When YOU, CN, change the cultural dynamics of the ancient Egyptian matrilineal rule to the father, i.e., any man, but in your estimation White-Semitic-Arab you are totally wrong. Enough said.
The Lembe, by form Sa-Lem-Besa or Sa-Lem-Beja, are not Semitic-Arabs! They are, to use your conflation, Black-Semitic-Afrikans.
NOT SEMITIC ARABS! NOT SEMITIC ARABS? AFRASIATIC!
Predominately Haplogroup T1 –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemba_people
“A genetic study in 1996 suggested that more than 50% of the Lemba Y-chromosomes are Semitic in origin;[17] a subsequent study in 2000 reported more specifically that a substantial number of Lemba men carry a particular haplotype of the Y-chromosome known as the Cohen modal haplotype (CMH), as well as, a haplogrup of Y-DNA Haplogroup J found amongst some Jews and in other populations across the Middle East.[18][19]
Studies have also suggested that there is no SEMITIC FEMALE contribution to the Lemba gene pool.[20]
One particular sub-clan within the Lemba, the Buba clan, is considered by the Lemba to be their priestly clan, while among Jews, the Kohanim are the priestly clan. The Buba clan carried most of the CMH found in the Lemba. Among Jews the marker is also most prevalent among Jewish Kohanim, or priests. As recounted in Lemba oral tradition, the Buba clan “had a leadership role in bringing the Lemba out of Israel” and into Southern Africa.[21]”
Buba by ancient form is Sebau/Sabau-Ba the dreaded enemy of the ancient Egyptians! I.E., the so-called HYKSOS!
“More recently, Mendez et al. (2011) observed that a moderately high frequency of the studied Lemba samples carried Y-DNA Haplogroup T, which is considered to be of NEAR EASTERN origin. However, the Lemba T CARRIERS belonged EXCLUSIVELY to T1b*, which is different from the Jews of NEAR EAST and AFRICA but share a similar estimate expansion time with the T1* Somalis. T1b* has been observed at LOW frequencies in the Bulgarian and Ashkenazi Jews, as well as in a few Levantine populations. [22]”
You must also consider the clades –
“K2-M70 is believed to have originated in Asia after the emergence of the K-M9 polymorphism (45,000–30,000 YEARS BEFORE PRESENT (YBP) (Underhill et al. 2001a). As deduced from the collective data (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002; Semino et al. 2002; present study), K2-M70 individuals, at some later point, proceeded south to Africa. While these chromosomes are seen in relatively high frequencies in Egypt, Oman, Tanzania, Ethiopia, they are especially prominent in the Fulbe 18%( [Scozzari et al. 1997, 1999])”
– J. R. Luis et al.: The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations (Errata), American Journal of Human Genetics, 74: 532-544.”
GENETIC-ETHNIC-UPDATE – your keep playing catch up !
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8900243
“The Lemba are a southern African Bantu-speaking population claiming Jewish ancestry. Allele frequencies at four different Y-specific polymorphic loci, as well as extended-haplotype frequencies that included data from several loci, were analyzed in an attempt to establish the genetic affinities and origins of the Lemba. The results suggest that > or = 50% of the Lemba Y chromosomes are Semitic in origin, approximately 40% are Negroid, and the ancestry of the remainder cannot be resolved. These Y-specific genetic findings are consistent with Lemba oral tradition, and analysis of the history of Jewish people and their association with Africa indicates that the historical facts are not incompatible with theories concerning the origin of the Lemba.”
Oh in case you cannot interpret this scientific information…
The results suggest that > or = 50% of the Lemba Y CHROMOSOMES are SEMITIC in origin, APPROXIMATELY 40% OF THE CHROMOSOMES are NEGROID, and the ANCESTRY of the REMAINDER CHROMOSOMES CANNOT BE RESOLVED.
BLACK-SEMITIC-NEGROES! NOT WHITE-SEMITIC-ARABS.
You have a really bad habit of copying and pasting what I have already inserted into the discussion. I get that this gives you a feeling of superiority to make the new readers to the site think you have a handle on the subject.
I will not make this a long post for that reason since it will likely begin a new page.
Your claim that the Arab genome is older than the Jewish genome is just stupid. Semitic-Arabic is both a language and culture just like Semitic-Jews who speak both Arabic and Hebrew. This is why the Lembe can be both Black-Negroes-Afrikan-Semites.
Possible time of origin – 19,000-34,000 years BP[1]
Possible place of origin – West Asia[2]
Ancestor – LT
Descendants – T1, T*
Defining mutations – L206, M184/Page34/USP9Y+3178, M193, M272, Page 129
Highest frequencies:
Kurru, Bauris, Chians, German Stilfser/Tyroleans, Somalis, Arabs from Somalia Saccensi/Sicilians, Fulbe, Eivissencs, Northeastern Portuguese Jews, Rajus, Mahli, Zoroastrians in Kerman, Bakhtiaris, Southern Egyptians
Both Arabs and Jews! Cultures – not ethnicities-races! You keep conflating phylogeny with geography.
“Evolution is regarded as a branching process, whereby populations are ALTERED OVER TIME and may SPECIATE INTO SEPARATE BRANCHES, hybridize together, or terminate by extinction. This may be visualized in a phylogenetic tree.”
DNA HYBRIDIZATION:
“DNA hybridization generally refers to a molecular biology technique that measures the degree of genetic similarity between pools of DNA sequences. It is usually used to determine the GENETIC DISTANCE BETWEEN TWO SPECIES. When several species are compared that way, the similarity values allow the species to be arranged in a phylogenetic tree; it is therefore one possible approach to carrying out molecular systematics.”
What is the problem with this explanation?
It is the word ‘species’. There is only one human species – the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, therefore, using the phrase between two species implies the species of the homo sapiens sapiens with another species.
This goes to the idea of the DNA of the Neaderthal which by the lastest information MAY comprise up to 4% of modern homo sapiens. 4% Neanderthal Y-DNA compared to the remaining 96% not-Neanderthal is meaningless in the long run.
Baron Gifilte
Who needs a cigar anyway.
Nice try,but no cigar.
The Skeptic
Dude, seriously, TAKE A GENETICS COURSE – you aren’t comprehending what you copy/paste – your info. BACKS what I said. The Lembe get their more Caucasian features from admixture with Arab Semitic Whites. The Chohen haplomarkers are J1(older) and J2(younger – ONLY occurring in Semitic Whites – Arabs and the closely related Jews – Arabs have MORE of J1, and, Jews MORE of J2.Translation, Arabs are OLDER than Jews.AGAIN, these haplomarkers DO NOT OCCUR IN BLACKS – only in Semitic Whites and Semitic White/Black mixes. QOTE, ” Derivative :
“The E-M215 derivative, E1b1b1 (E-M35) is defined by the M35 SNP. E-M35 includes individuals with the “ancestral state” (no known sub-clade forming mutations). These are referred to as E1b1b1* or E-M35*.
…..As of 2011, there are SEVEN KNOWN BRANCHES THAT HAVE RESULTED FROM DIFFERENT MUTATIONS on M35: M68, V257, M123, V6, M293, V42 and V92. In order to show what is known of their relationships to E1b1b1 and other related clades, these are also currently referred to as E1b1b1a to E1b1b1g, respectively (see image). The more frequently described sub-clades are E1b1b1a (especially its more well-known sub-clade E-M78) and E1b1b1b (especially it well-known sub-clade E-M81). Both are found in Mediterranean(ARABS – MY EMPHASIS) & West Asian peoples. These two sub-clades represent the largest proportion of E1b1b. E1b1b1a is found over most of the range where E1b1b is found excluding Southern Africa. E1b1b1b is found mainly in the Maghreb.*****E1b1b1c is less common but widely scattered, with significant populations in specific parts of the Horn of Africa, the Levant, Arabia, Iberia, and Anatolia******(EMPHASIS MINE – why look – ARABS again). E1b1b1e is a fourth major sub-clade that has been found in parts of Eastern and Southern Africa, includes the majority of UNIQUE E1b1b1 lineages in SUB-Saharan Africa (THOSE THAT LACK M78, M81, or M123 mutations).[8]
…Three smaller sub-clades are defined by mutations V6, V42 and V92 appear to be unique to the Horn of Africa region.”
Common Ancestor is East Afrikan E1b-1a – defined by MUTATIONS which gave rise to the Semitic E1b-1b, etc.
“Based on genetic STR variance data, Cruciani et al. (2007) suggests that E1b1b1a1 originated in “Northeastern Africa”, which in their study refers specifically to Egypt and Libya.[Note 4] about 18,600 years ago (17,300 – 20,000 years ago).[Note 5]
…Battaglia et al. (2008) describe Egypt as “a hub for the distribution of the various geographically localized M78-related sub-clades” and, based on archaeological data, they propose that the point of origin of E-M78 (as opposed to later dispersals from Egypt)
…may have been in a refugium which “existed on the border of present-day SUDAN and EGYPT, near LAKE NUBIA, until the onset of a humid phase around 8500 BC. The northward-moving rainfall belts during this period could have also SPURRED A RAPID MIGRATION of Mesolithic foragers NORTHWARDS in Africa, the Levant and ultimately onwards to Asia Minor and Europe,
…where they EACH EVENTUALLY DIFFERENTIATED into their regionally distinctive branches”. Eur-Asian genotype-phenotypes. Asian genotype-phenotypes, European-ethnic genotype-phenotypes all from the East Afrikan – BLACK – Afrikan – ethnic genotype-phenotypes!
Towards the south, Hassan et al. (2008) also explain evidence that some subclades of E-M78, specifically E-V12 and E-22, “might have been BROUGHT TO SUDAN from North Africa after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000-8,000 years ago”.
There are four recognized sub-clades, which were mostly defined by Cruciani et al. (2006).
E1b1b1a1a (E-V12). Found in Egypt, Sudan, and other places. Has an important sub-clade E1b1b1a1a2 (E-V32) which is very common amongst Ethiopian Oromo, Borana Oromo from Kenya and Somalis(MY COMMENT – these peoples have a high admixture of Arab heritage).
…Towards the south, Hassan et al. (2008) also explain evidence that some subclades of E-M78, specifically E-V12 and E-22, “might have been BROUGHT TO SUDAN from North Africa after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000-8,000 years ago”.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Genotype-Phenotype
E1b1b1a1b (E-V13). This is the most common type of E1b1b found in Europe and is especially common in the Balkans.
*****E1b1b1a1c (E-V22). Found in Egypt, the Middle East and other places.*****(MY EMPHASIS – NOTE: Middle East, as in ARABS)
E1b1b1a1d (E-V65). Associated with the Maghreb, but also found in Italy and Spain.
E1b1b1a1e (E-M521). Found in two individuals in Greece by Battaglia et al. (2008)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get over it. Genotype-phenotype differentiation for Blacks, Asians, Eur-Asians, Europeans, and four different clades of American Indians. Play all the word-games you want…the Afrikan-Black specific E1b1a is 30,000 – 20,000 YBP. In time the genotype-phenotype changed to reveal the other racial types of the human family.
The human race?
“As people define and put about different conceptions of race, they actively create contrasting social realities through which racial categorization is achieved in varied ways.[15] In this sense, races are said to be social constructs.[16][17] These constructs can develop within various legal,[15][18] economic,[18] and sociopolitical[19][20] contexts, and at times may be the effect, rather than the cause, of major social situations.[19] Socioeconomic factors,[19][21][22][23][24] in combination with early but enduring[25] views of race, have led to considerable suffering amongst the disadvantaged racial groups. Intergroup competition fosters ingroup biases against their outgroup.[26][27] Accordingly, when groups find themselves in competition with their designated outgroups, the more privileged group may subject its disadvantaged counterpart to discriminatory treatment. Racial discrimination often coincides with racist mindsets, whereby the individuals and ideologies of one group come to perceive the members of their outgroup as both racially defined[19] and morally inferior.[28] As a result, racial groups possessing relatively little power[22][29] often find themselves excluded or oppressed, while the individuals and institutions[30] of the hegemony are charged with holding racist attitudes.[23][31] Racism has factored into many instances of tragedy,[32] including SLAVERY and GENOCIDE. Scholars continue to debate the degrees to which racial categories are biologically warranted[9][33] and socially constructed, as well as the extent to which the realities[34] of race must be acknowledged in order for society to comprehend and address racism adequately.[15][33]”
That is the point, dude. E1b-1a genotype-phenotype is the first all others came after, including what you like to call White-Arab-Semitic which includes White-Jew-Semitic and the South Afrikan Lembe who are as dark-complexioned as any Afrikan and do not self-identify as white or Caucasian.
Race not used as class systems? That world does not exist yet. We are not there….so until that great utopia arrives…for the purposes of not having fuzzy genetics – the original so-called Afrikans were Blacks having the greatest genetic diversity than any other so-called ethnic haplogroup on the planet.”
FURTHER QUOTES, “”…Three smaller sub-clades are defined by mutations V6, V42 and V92 appear to be unique to the Horn of Africa region.”
Common Ancestor is East Afrikan E1b-1a – defined by MUTATIONS which gave rise to the Semitic E1b-1b, etc.”
MORE SEMITIC WHITE admixture – this time, Jewish:“A genetic study in 1996 suggested that more than 50% of the Lemba Y-chromosomes are Semitic in origin;[17] a subsequent study in 2000 reported more specifically that a substantial number of Lemba men carry a particular haplotype of the Y-chromosome known as the Cohen modal haplotype (CMH), as well as, a haplogrup of Y-DNA Haplogroup J found amongst some Jews and in other populations across the Middle East.[18][19]
Studies have also suggested that there is no Semitic female contribution to the Lemba gene pool.[20]
One particular sub-clan within the Lemba, the Buba clan, is considered by the Lemba to be their priestly clan, while among Jews, the Kohanim are the priestly clan. The Buba clan carried most of the CMH found in the Lemba. Among Jews the marker is also most prevalent among Jewish Kohanim, or priests. As recounted in Lemba oral tradition, the Buba clan “had a leadership role in bringing the Lemba out of Israel” and into Southern Africa.[21]
More recently, Mendez et al. (2011) observed that a moderately high frequency of the studied Lemba samples carried Y-DNA Haplogroup T, which is considered to be of Near Eastern origin. However, the Lemba T carriers belonged exclusively to T1b*, which is different from the Jews of Near East and Africa but share a similar estimate expansion time with the T1* Somalis. T1b* has been observed at low frequencies in the Bulgarian and Ashkenazi Jews, as well as in a few Levantine populations. [22]””
THERE YOU HAVE IT – YOUR OWN INFORMATION INDICATING SEMITIC WHITE, BOTH ARAB, AND, JEWISH ADMIXTURE.
AGAIN, it is you who is claiming the common ancestor of all ethnic groups, is a Black person – the sources use African, NOT Black – got anything to back your claim – Blacks are the ancestors of all ethnic groups – ANYTHING – other than YOU say so?
Feels Good. :roll: