The slaughter of animals by halal or kosher methods could be banned in Holland.
The Muslim and Jewish practices inflict unacceptable suffering on animals, campaigners say.
A vote will take place later this month. An unlikely alliance of an animal rights party and the Right-wing Freedom Party is heading support for the ban.
The Party of the Animals, the first such party to be elected to a parliament, says humane treatment of animals trumps traditions of tolerance.
However, the move has angered Jewish and Muslim groups, which insist the initiative is an affront to freedom of religion.
As in most western countries, Dutch law dictates that butchers must stun livestock – render it unconscious – before slaughter, to minimise pain and fear.
But an exception is made for meat prepared under ancient Jewish and Muslim dietary laws.
These demand that animals be slaughtered while still awake, by swiftly cutting the main neck arteries with razor-sharp knives.
Most Dutch favour a ban. The procedures are already banned in New Zealand, Scandinavian and Baltic countries and Switzerland.
The far right’s support of the bill, which is expected to go to a parliamentary vote this month, is based on its strident hostility towards the Dutch Muslim population.
But Jewish and Muslim groups have called the bill an affront to freedom of religion.
Ruben Vis, a spokesman for the CJO, an umbrella group of Jewish organisations, said: ‘I can speak for the Dutch Jewish community and I think for the wider Jewish world, that this law raises grave concerns about infringements on religious freedoms.’
Abdulfatteh Ali-Salah, director of Halal Correct, said Muslims felt Dutch society was more interested in animal welfare than fair treatment of its citizens.
‘If the law goes through now there’s nothing else to do but protest,’ he said.
Most Dutch are believed to favour a ban.
If the bill is passed, the Netherlands will join New Zealand, Scandinavian countries and Switzerland which have had bans for decades.
The Netherlands has a proud history of tolerance and was one of the first countries in Europe to allow Jews to live openly with their religion in the 17th century.
The country has around one million Muslims out of a total population of around 16 million. There are estimated to be around 50,000 Jews after 70 per cent of their community died in Nazi concentration camps in World War Two.
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Usmani Sahib you took my words
I have respect for all even those who commented negative but not for a cheapster like this joker “Hafiz Jee”
with such sentiments he otherwise seize to be a muslim
@ Anthony Claud
This is not a debate between muslims
Hafiz Jee is an insurgant.
No respect for the imposter
@ Neimal; Thanks for the support
Naimal,
You and your other friends living in UAE are all economic migrants, mostly from uneducated, poor backgrounds of Pakistan and there is a saying in Pakistan that people who have money send their children to learn English, and people who are poor send their children to learn the quran. Your Islam is what you have been told by your parents and their parents so on, it is not what you might have bothered to learn or educate yourself on from books or most importantly from Quran itself.
Please get a life, go and learn the religion first before you call others whether what religion they might be.
You be so ashamed that Anothany Cloud (who from the name appears to be a non-muslim) has given far superior examples and in a nutshell a true picture of any religion, more importantly a factual picture of Islam.
Learn from his post and grow up.
Anthony Cloud, WELL DONE you have captured a true picture of religious narrow mindness.
Not everyone will be treated all the same..
What a pointless debate between Muslims trying to justify the fact that they are still trying to live in medieval times, because subconsciously they think that this is better because it gives them an excuse for being lazy and consumers rather than producers.
If I, as a doctor, had got up on my back legs several thousand years ago years ago and proclaimed that you shouldn’t eat the meat of a swine, because it may contain the cysticerci of a Tape Worm which if it infected you, it would kill you, who do you think would have listened? NO-ONE!
If I, as a Doctor, had told you that eating or drinking the blood of an animal could kill you, because it could contain bacteria and virii that there was no cure for back then, who would have listened? NO ONE
If I had got up and told the people that it was a really bad idea to eat with a hand which had just used a palm leaf and some sand to wipe your arse, because you may infect other people, who would have listened? NO-ONE!
If I had told the people that your women should be covered, especially their heads and their pale skin, because of sunstroke and sunburn and also because YOUR race have more testosterone than others and thus you want to shag as many pretty women as you can, every day and that this would lead to violence and sexually transmitted diseases, who would have listened? NO ONE!
If I had told you to bathe from time to time to prevent yourselves from stinking and getting skin infections, who would have listened? NO-ONE!
Thus, your simple people, living in the desert, with little access to running water, very little, if any hygiene (just go visit India or Pakistan if you don’t believe me) and because of the heat and the fact that you are over-sexed, in order to survive, you needed to get someone to CONVINCE the people that the points above were for their own benefit.
NO-ONE would have the power or authority to achieve this, so every nation and every tribe invented a supreme being, a GOD, and a God who would strike them down in the most horrible ways imaginable if they didn’t obey him.
Learned people (of the time) then sat down and wrote reams of Rules which had to be obeyed, they are all in some ways the same (watch this movie – http://www.watchzeitgeist.com/), but yet they are all different. The Christians had Moses with his stone tablets, the Jews had written the Talmud. The Muslims wrote the Koran and the Black tribes had their Gods but they were too dumb to invent a written language, the Norsemen had their Gods, so did the Romans and all had their “Book of Rules”.
Now it was different. Everyone had to obey and those with the lust for power took it upon themselves to enforce their God’s “Rules”.
This is 2011, believe it or not, not 3 AD or before. New medicines have removed the chances of getting Tape Worms from pork. In any case, even if a human DOES get a tape worm it’s only an inconvenience (in a CIVILIZED society), because there are vermicides that remove them.
Most people in India, Pakistan and the Middle East now have running water and most people wash their hands before they eat, so the rule that one should only eat with your right hand is superfluous and stupid..
Most people bathe their bodies, fairly regularly (there are exceptions of course and if one chooses to bath in a river full of excrement and stinking corpses, ‘because it’s a sacred river’, they deserve to get sick and die).
If you learned how to keep your zips closed and your pants up (or your white shirts down), you wouldn’t have to cover you slaves (women) from head to toe. Maybe then you wouldn’t think every woman was going to think you such a great guy that she would lie down and open her legs for you! Maybe, just maybe, you could educate your tribes that it is NOT their right to have sex with every woman they happen to fancy. In other words a bit of self-control might help.
I could go on for hours on this theme, but the bottom line is that we are living in the year 2011 (or some other year if you are a Muslim) and NOT in the year 1 AD (or its equivalent). Most of the “Rules” you lived by in the past, because they were necessary are OBSOLETE. You are so proud to live in the past and your tiny minds refuse to believe that it’s time to move on, because if you did, you would have no excuse to sit on your arses most of the day reading the Koran and you would have no excuse to get out into the fields to feed your people and you would have no excuse to try to take over the world by forcing every other nation one earth to live like you did 2,000 or more years ago.
You can have as many “learned” arguments as you like, but I suggest that you all WAKE UP and SHUT UP.
hafiz jee
asalamoalaikum
it is always much better not to insult yourself by talking of things you’ve never known
you cant prove you are a muslim by calling yourself ‘HAFIZ JEE’
its like as if some woman calls herself ‘Mary Aunty’
before you try to TEACH your FAKE islam, learn something about the REAL ISLAM, THE TRUE RELIGION.
i am ready to help you if you have doubts abt this true path:)
and when you do so, im pretty sure you will find the answers to the questions like:
”So why and how can you pick and choose things from the religion? why do you not follow Islam ?
Why do you not follow Sunnat?”
whn you reply to my comment, remember that to me, you are a ‘laughing stock’ if you continue to ‘brag’ about islam
this how you dont insult me nor my religion
Islam as a whole will NEVER be called a barbaric religion only because of narrow minded people like you.
I’d suggest you not to call yourself a muslim, is someone forcing you to keep this identity, HAFIZ JEEE?
I’m surprised at how well Nasar has handelled this issue. We need more muslims like this one.
hats off!
1. Ayesha was 13 at time of her marriage, in a society where girls were burried alive, marriage was an honor
2. If it a person like “Muhammad” I will be pleased to give my teenaged daughter to him in marriage
3. It is not writen in Quran to slaughter with a knife, so you slaughter with a stone; go ahead do it and eat it your self
4. True that there is not a significant number of true muslims in Pakistan BUT even if the whole human race becomes Muslim OR even if the whole human race becomes Infidel; what benefit is it going to get you from Allah?
5. “Free Masons” give their daughters and wives even to their enemies for vested interests, we are Alhamdolillah much better
Nasar,
Any thing which I asked you above you have failed to answer except to reply in abusive language, if someone supporting your character pleases you then be it, but it does not change the fact that you have failed to support your cause. If you slightest brain cell then you should be able to self asses yourself and your acts.
However, moving forward for people like you it is clearly written in Quran that you will believe in wrong doing and when you are told the correct thing you will ignore it. Quran clearly tells us that god will close the brain and eyes so you will not be able to see the wrong, this is exactly what you and your fellow Pakistanis AKA Kufristanis are doing. You call your self a muslim yet your behaviour and actions are of a beast. Just by chopping your willy and growing a beard does not make you a muslim.
Finally, if you feel you and your fellow Kufristanis can fool the god, if you feel that you are above the god then continue your behaviour.
Closing on the topic of this thread, you still have not shown where in Quran is it written that you have to eat halal by knife?
You still have not answered if you will be happy to give your daughter or sister of 10 yer old to a 55 year old man?
You still have not answered where in Kufristan can one find a single muslim?
You still have not answered the fundamental question that why do you pick and choose things from the religion which suit you and leave the others which you don’t like.
Are you telling me that if you kill some one today court will punish you but if you were to steal or rape court might let you go?
So why and how can you pick and choose things from the religion? why do you not follow Islam ?
Why do you not follow Sunnat?
Call yourself a muslim, you corrupt thug just because you have another of your fellow Kufristani supporting you does not mean that Islam will change for the two of you.
Irony is that pan calling the kettle black. What a joke.
Halal and Kosher meat is Barbaric, Islam as a whole is a barbaric religion only because of narrow minded people like you.
@ Mohandispak
Thankyou for the timely guidance
I apologise for the bad language to a fake character
Another mistake by me is I was trying to teach confused people with no mind set
First he asked about Kosher – I gave scientific reasons
Then he wanted its relegious precedence – I quoted verses of Quran
Then again he shifted the topic to the wives of the prophet
And stupid of all, he asked where is it writen to use knife for slaughtering – will you use a hammer instead?
@ Usmani Sahib
I have been reading your comments with interest
You have been very objective. Dont loose your ethics because of any insurgent. It is obvious, Hafiz Jee may be another Sulman Rushdie born in a muslim family and having a muslim name trying to detrack you
Mohandispak,
It has nothing to do with being S.Rushdi, my dear fellow human what I ask of is plain and simple honesty that is all. If handling truth becomes too much of a burden for someone they start calling others by names. This is a very unique quality found in Kufristan (previously known as Pakitan).
As I have said above many time we all should look in the mirror first before judging others. If we so choose to have a debate then keep cool and have an educated healthy and an adult debate.
Yahoud!
@Hafiz Jee
You Won
you are right, it is not writen in Quran to use knife for slaughtering LOL
Quran is such an incomplete book, for example, it is not writen anywhere in Quran “Dont eat Shit”
So, now you must eat shit
Please come to Pakistan, we have a lot of filth and we desperately need Swines like you to eat up that filth
you bloody moron, basturd son of a coward pimp who can not even write his true identity. Son of many Rascals, stinking spit of society
had you came as a zionist perhaps I would still have some respect for you but you are pretender You are not a muslim for sure, you are a shameless creature, bloody imposter, a cheapster
NOW i will not reply you any more
Nasar,
It is not about winning or losing, point here is wrong or right. Therefore sticking to the subject of this debate Halal and Kosher meat is indeed barbaric it should be banned globally.
Now moving on to your post above, my dear Mullah you have yet again proved my point that you are a faro and there is not a single Muslim in Pakistan AKA Kufristan. Firstly just note your vulgar and abusive language, did Quran tell you to use such language? Did prophet Muhammad use such language, did his teaching tell you to speak in such manner?
And you come here to preach us ways of Islam what a joke ha ha.
Now lets note how very low you have gone for your examples, how very shallow you are and how weak is your belief in your religion that you have nothing decent or educated to be used as an example, what a joke.
As I have said above many times it is hypocrite two face people like you who do not have a clue about religion, themselves are corrupt and ignorant yet very quick to judge others. Sort yourself out first then worry about others. Look in the mirror.
You and people like you are worse then Kafir because Kafir has a religion and they very much follow it. But you and your fellow Kufristanis are all Faros.
Bush meat.
Hafiz Jee
Majority of world population denounce these verses of Quran, you can also denounce them as you feel
BUT by defination; Muslim is one who beleive in Allah, Messangers and all books and the day of judgement
Maida: 5: 3
حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحْمُ الْخِنزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ وَالْمُنْخَنِقَةُ وَالْمَوْقُوذَةُ وَالْمُتَرَدِّيَةُ وَالنَّطِيحَةُ وَمَا أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلَّا مَا ذَكَّيْتُمْ وَمَا ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ وَأَن تَسْتَقْسِمُوا بِالْأَزْلَامِ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ فِسْقٌ ۗ الْيَوْمَ يَئِسَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِن دِينِكُمْ فَلَا تَخْشَوْهُمْ وَاخْشَوْنِ ۚ الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الْإِسْلَامَ دِينًا ۚ فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ مُتَجَانِفٍ لِّإِثْمٍ ۙ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah. that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Anaam 6: 118, 119, 120, 121
فَكُلُوا مِمَّا ذُكِرَ اسْمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ إِن كُنتُم بِآيَاتِهِ مُؤْمِنِينَ
وَمَا لَكُمْ أَلَّا تَأْكُلُوا مِمَّا ذُكِرَ اسْمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَقَدْ فَصَّلَ لَكُم مَّا حَرَّمَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِلَّا مَا اضْطُرِرْتُمْ إِلَيْهِ ۗ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا لَّيُضِلُّونَ بِأَهْوَائِهِم بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ ۗ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُعْتَدِينَ
وَذَرُوا ظَاهِرَ الْإِثْمِ وَبَاطِنَهُ ۚ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْسِبُونَ الْإِثْمَ سَيُجْزَوْنَ بِمَا كَانُوا يَقْتَرِفُونَ
وَلَا تَأْكُلُوا مِمَّا لَمْ يُذْكَرِ اسْمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَفِسْقٌ ۗ وَإِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ لَيُوحُونَ إِلَىٰ أَوْلِيَائِهِمْ لِيُجَادِلُوكُمْ ۖ وَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوهُمْ إِنَّكُمْ لَمُشْرِكُونَ
So eat of (meats) on which Allah.s name hath been pronounced, if ye have faith in His signs.
Why should ye not eat of (meats) on which Allah.s name hath been pronounced, when He hath explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you – except under compulsion of necessity? But many do mislead (men) by their appetites unchecked by knowledge. Thy Lord knoweth best those who transgress.
Eschew all sin, open or secret: those who earn sin will get due recompense for their “earnings.”
Eat not of (meats) on which Allah.s name hath not been pronounced: That would be impiety. But the evil ones ever inspire their friends to contend with you if ye were to obey them, ye would indeed be Pagans.
Anaam 6: 145
قُل لَّا أَجِدُ فِي مَا أُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ مُحَرَّمًا عَلَىٰ طَاعِمٍ يَطْعَمُهُ إِلَّا أَن يَكُونَ مَيْتَةً أَوْ دَمًا مَّسْفُوحًا أَوْ لَحْمَ خِنزِيرٍ فَإِنَّهُ رِجْسٌ أَوْ فِسْقًا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ ۚ فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ غَيْرَ بَاغٍ وَلَا عَادٍ فَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
Say: “I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination – or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah.s”. But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
BYE TO YOU
Nasar,
Lets get few facts right here.
1) Where does Quran tell us that we MUST use knife?
2) Where in Quran is it written that you must not first stun then you may use the knife?
3) If you are trying to be such a mullah then you must know that Prophet muhammad also ate food which was not Halal, prime example being that he attended many dinners in Jew houses, and fact of the matter is that his death and poison story was also due to one of the dinner party which he attended in Jew house.
4) Lets take example of few muslim countries and what is being eaten there! where do you want to start from, going by your name you sound Pakistani (sorry if I am wrong) so lets start from Pakistan. It is suppose to be a muslim country right? is it?
Mullahs the so called holy man stole millions from Hajis I am sure you know the HAJJ scandal, government and all ministers are filling their pockets. Now lets talk about the public, no one pays tax, every one must give and take bribe, every one must steal where ever possible, may it be stealing electric, robbery, theft, rape, killing, lies any thing and every thing that is forbidden is 100% become part of the daily routine so much so that people don’t even think about it and if any one try to tell them the right way they think he is crazy. As I asked before show me one just one single person in Pakistan who is Muslim. I am not asking you much.
I am sure you read Jung and DAWN every week it is in both papers, ARY and GEO TV that on weekly basis all the three big cities as well as small towns are involved where by either butchers or restaurants are caught selling, PIG, DOG, CAT. DONKEY, DEAD Animals, Parrots, Eagles, RATS, and last week in Chenuit butcher was caught selling human flesh.
Do you call this Islam?
Whole country knows what they are selling and what they are eating did it stop anyone buying the meat, did it stop anyone not eating in restaurants?
Is this Islam?
You only have to do a search on the net and you tube to find all the above.
Similarly there are thousand of same stories in many muslim countries but perhaps not the the extent like Pakistan AKS Kufristan.
Now lets go back to your religion stories.
When Muhammad was 55 he married Aysha who was 10 years old and was a virgin. Now you want to be so muslim would you give your 10 year old daughter to a 55 year old man? if you say no then please tell me why not? are not not a muslim? is it not sunnat?
As I said don’t pick and choose things in the religion, if you so choose to be modern about few thing then you must understand the pain and suffering of the animal here.
I can go on and on, how much honesty can you handle?
Look in the mirror first before trying to be a mullah, before trying to point fingers on others.
Bottom line here is that Islam is stuck in a time-warp it has not moved with time which is the main reason that despite ruling the whole world it lost the strong hold then and today that Muslim world despite being the richest in the world in terms of natural resources are still slaves to the west and they will remain like this because narrow minded people like you will never let others to progress.
It was the same reason MUslim lost their global power then and the same reason they are slave now.
Good day to you too.
Dear All
This Basturd “Hafiz Jee” is a fake character. He is not a muslim
Stunning requires 1.3A~260V for 10-15 seconds on the Skull of the animal, then it is slaughtered normally
The birds (Chicken) are hanged upside down and with a sudden water jet at 2Atm pressure cause animal to suffocate, there is a current of 200mA~200V in the water which is earthed from the hangers where feet of the birds are clipped, thus the whole body is electricuted. 10% of the birds are already dead in this process before their neck is chopped off with grinder
You put your two fingers in the 220V socket for just 2 sec ..
OR go into swimming pool and breath from the nose while head down…
and then tell the world that stunning is less barberic then slaughtering
Actually;
stunning puts the animal in a state of shock and render it helpless, temporarily paralised, and unable to react thus makes the butcher’s job easy AND the suffering of the animal is further increased.
It is like masking your mouth before you are killed and deducting that you didnt feel pain once you were unable to make noise!!
The animals takes pain of electric shock + suffocation + severing neck. And the blood is also not quenched completely from the carcass
AND above all it is open violation of the commands of Allah
Nasar,
As I mentioned above that you must be in your teens you have just proved above your childish behaviour yet again.
PLEASE PLEASE refrain from destroying the name of Islam and get some education on the subject.
May I also remind you that this is not your house where you can do what you like, this is a public domain so please hold your abusive language, call yourself a muslim just look in the mirror first, where does quran tell us to use such abusive language that you have used above?
You my dear Faroh and people like you are all Faros because you are a two face hypocrite you hide behind a religious mask but in reality you people will beat any devil any time.
Staying on the subject of the halal meat issue, if you genuinely believe the stunning causes discomfort then on balance comparing the two methods knife by far is the worse form. It is barbaric without any doubt.
Nasar Jali mullah, it is fake mullahs like you who seem to be determined to fill their own pockets by telling lies to rest of the world. You don’t have a clue about about any religion never mind just Islam.
Next time only comment about food or movies that you watch that you know about.
Hafiz Jeeeee
stunning takes place at 1.3 Ampares at 260 Volts for 10-15 seconds
whereas the safe voltage in UK is 110 volts
Tell you what; put you two fingers into an electric socket at 220 volts for just 1 second and then tell the world that stunning is less barbaric then slaughtering
And if you are really a muslim then allow me to call you a Rascal
I will not reply you anymore
Nasar,
You must be the biggest idiot on the face of this earth. You said “safe voltage in UK is 110 volts”
where did you get this from? For your info all Europe has 220-240 volt. 110 is mainly used in North America and as a dual volt supply in parts of Middle East.
Call me what ever you like but it will not change the facts. Through out the history of mankind it has always been a problem that hypocrite two face people like you always have a problem admitting and facing facts, people like you prefer to live a life of a lie, you live in denial then facts.
Learn to admit when you are in the wrong, look in the mirror before you point fingers on others, learn to accept facts, by closing your eyes on them they will not go away. Only after this you can progress.
If you can not understand the above then don’t try its above you.
Sausages are popular in Germany,the Cold War is known as the Wurst.
@ Hafiz Jee; it is a fake name, you are not a Muslim
Someone named John, I will say him “Mr. John” but to himself he will not say “I am Mr. John” he will say “I am John” similarly; people say “Hafiz Jee” but hafiz jee will say “I am Hafiz”
BUT whoever you are:
Next time when you go for a surgical operation, take me along, I will request the Doctors NOT to administer you Anesthesia RATHER stun you with electric shock so that you may feel less pain at surgery
Anyhow; thanks for acknowleding that blood must flow out for healthy meat
Nasar,
I don’t know how old you are but from all your ignorant and childish comments above it is obvious that you are in your teens.
May I please suggest that if you wish to engage in an educated debate then at lest try to use examples which make sense don’t argue just for the sake of it you are not in the school ground now. Grow up.
If you really want I can easily go on to take your little ignorant brain apart but as bad the publicity Islam is getting and people like you doing their level best to destroy the name of it I rather hold back.
Bottom line here is the fact of the matter is the Halal meat is barbaric. no two ways about it.
Islam as a whole is stuck in a time-warp only because most of the followers (like you) are ignorant, uneducated and choose not to move forward with time. They only pick and choose the things they want out of the religion. Islam today is the most corrupt religion on earth, just look around you and see what is going on the muslim countries vs the west. Take example of the failed country called Pakistan so called muslim country, can you honestly find a single muslim there?
Go get a life, educate yourself before you open your mouth next time.
I am a muslim but I 100% agree that halal or kosher slaughtering practice is totally barbaric.
If the intention is to get all the blood out and use a sharp knife then do so but still use stunning prior to the knife so that animal does not feel the pain.
I am an animal lover, I have many different pets at home and I go well out of my way for their comfort so I can not support such barbaric act.
I would further add a point for my narrow minded community that if you so want to follow everything that was done at time of prophet then hey do it all.
Why do you use cars? use horses and camels, why do you use AC ?
Why use the gun now please use the knife and sword.
I can go on and on the list is never ending but these guys will get offended so I rather stop here.
There are plenty of videos on you-tube to educate us on slaughtering it can be seen that if knife is used right after stunning then blood will still leave the body as it is still warm and heart is still pumping.
Go educate yourself rather then argue over a stupid old ways of doing things and your narrow views.
I hope that using knife on animals gets the ban globally.
Inshallah.
I served the Pakistan Army Corpse of Engineers,
besides Engineering, I also did Law Course and whenever there was a legal suit, I was oftenly appointed as Defence Advocate; Having said
Whenever a witness resort to making too complicated explanations or use too complex language..
All we know is that the person is a “LIAR”
The “invincible” US army that since the successful occupation of Grenada hasn’t had any victory (couldn’t even capture the seriously ill Osama Bin Laden), is busy testing A.I. programs, using faked identities and locations in order to improve its reputation plus that of US policy (like poisoning huge areas with DU) and to discredit posters:
http://www.tecca.com/news/2011/03/18/ntrepid-centcom-sock-puppets/
http://www.talksy.com/111877/us-military-spy-operation-to-manipulate-social-media-create-fake-online-identities-to-spread-pro-american-propaganda
I had ribs this evening,it was good although it was not the fish and goose soiree often associated with those practice fraud.
Gravitational Pull is responsible for all laws of Physics, without this pull, matter will dis-intigrate into smoke…
Smoke Theory explained in Quran 41:11
Quran: Then He turned straight to the sky, while it was a smoke, and said to it and to the earth, “Come (to My obedience), both of you, willingly or unwillingly.” Both said, “We come willingly.”
(41:11; verse 11, chapter 41(Ha Meem Sajda)”
I wonder one day you will start a compaign, stop that cobler, he is striking too hard on the iron, it hurts the iron..
I mean, we all know matter is dead
kinetic energy, potential energy, flexural stresses, yeild strength, force, moment, inertia, friction, atomic structures, plasma, fission, fussion.. all are inter-related and you can explain them on reason
BUT what is the reason of “Gravitational Pull” why does a “Dead matter” has to pull another “Dead matter”?? why
If only one of our settelites is revolving round the earth, the earth never showed a desire that no there must be two or eight… why does a dead nuclei has a desire to fulfill its valancy?
The “I” I didnt ask its meaning from the dictionary.. every soul has a very own private view of the world, and each “corps” has a dedicated “I” why is there no one “I” for two corpses? (expected answer = Spirit)
The presupposition that matter is dead requires another presupposition, that life is created as if by magic. It has been tried to find a difference between the weight of a living (but dying) person and the weight after death.
The difference would be attributed to “soul” and after eliminating errors, it was found to be zero.
(Reminder of the phlogiston issue)
Hence it would be logical to consider that matter isn’t dead but that it only becomes apparent after a threshold of complexity has been passed (metabolism, reproduction etc.). That implies, human beings aren’t beyond natural laws but way too complicated for a complete analysis (yet). Nevertheless there’s some progress in construction of artificial living organisms (virus).
Questions regarding “why” are a portal to infinite regression so unless limited, are unpractical.
To a kid, the periodical table of the elements could be explained by a special kind of lego: only certain combinations are valid, some are stable, others unstable, and still others fall apart after trying to make them. Electrical charge plays an important role in atoms, contrary to satellites revolving around a celestial body.
Regarding the (seeming) existence of “I & you”,this excerpt from “The One Alone” by Ibn Arabi might do:
Know that He is never in anything, nor is anything in Him. He is neither inside nor outside of anything. None can see Him, whether with the eyes of the head or with the inner eye; nor can any conceive Him with senses, knowledge, mind,
intelligence or imagination. Only He can see Himself; only He can conceive Himself. None can know Him; only He can know Himself. He sees Himself by Himself; He conceives Himself by Himself; He knows Himself by Himself. None other than He can see Him. None other than He can know Him. That which hides Him is His oneness. None but Himself can hide Him. The veil that hides Him is His own being.
He is not within you; nor are you in Him. He does not exclude you, nor are you excluded from Him. When you are addressed as you, do not think that you exist, with an essence and qualities and attributes; for you never existed, nor do exist, nor
ever will exist. You have not entered into Him, nor He into you. Without being, your essence is with Him and in Him. Without having any identity, you are Him and He is you. If you know yourself as nothing, then you truly know your Lord. Otherwise, you truly know Him not.
Dear Mr. Usmani, I’ll use the same point-wise notation.
1. There are quite a few cases where someone disappointed enough, will not revert to worship. One example, the Kathopanishad (India), the other, prince Gautama who as a Jain monk failed to attain enlightenment but attained it after abandoning that ascetic way.
2. In coma, a person does not seem to respond to stimuli but nevertheless is considered alive (brain functions). There still is metabolism too.
3. Plants have been shown to be aware of, and to respond to their neighbors too. The term “jungle war” can apply in a literal sense. It’s just that plants and trees do not have the equivalent of self-transportation.
4. Psychology regards the study of behavior of humans (or animals).
5. Those are self-evident cases where a definition ads nothing. Nobody needs a definition of “sweet taste” either.
6. Incorrect presupposition. Death regards an end to functionality but dead bodies still are full of energy: it’s why many people eat dead animals. Fear of death in action gets the wrong interpretation of resisting.
7. Accidents happen, and can be lethal.
8. “Me”, “you”, “other” are transient sensations that can do a lot of harm. The root cause is “egoism”.
9. “Internal” body language is electrochemical. A cat’s brain already has been tapped to provide images by translating the electrochemical communications.
All decisions have been made before the notion arises “I made a decision” IOW decisions are made unconsciously. Try this experiment: when starting to walk, which foot will be moved first, and why?
10. There are enough verified cases of NDE and memories people cannot have gathered in the present life, to disregard the notion that life ends when brain functions no longer can be measured.
11. One cannot attain “unconditional bliss” in this very life by living the life of a villain IOW the end of suffering can’t be realized by administering suffering to other creatures.
12. Try to reverse the burning of a match by using the energy produced by the oxidation of its constituents (wood, sulfur etc.).
13. Evolution regards the passing of thresholds within processes of gradual adaptation. The human genome closely resembles that of bonobos and chimpanzees (common ancestor issue). It also contains Neanderthal material.
14. Amino acids even travel per meteor and are the building blocks of life_as_we_know_it.
15.More energy is required to produce a big bang event than will be released by that big bang. So in order to produce a production process of a big bang, still more energy is required. IOW the presupposition of a created big bang presupposes infinite regression to a state of infinite energy. Not likely.
16. People do not like the idea that their knowledge is limited so will not easily admit that. One euphemism for “I don’t know (yet)” has become “the creator did it”.
17. There’s much more to physics than just gravity. Some non-conformists coined he term “electrical universe” due to the abundance of plasmas. Then there’s the issue that gravity results from distortion of the curvature of space IOW not a case of attraction at all.
18. Helium, not so. It’s atomic (in space, often plasma).
19. Gravity regards the effect of distortion of space by matter. IOW only the annihilation of matter could result in the absence of gravity, not the other way round.
JanB
Dear Friend; I am an engineer, so I will reply in my language
1. Someone who doesn’t believe in Allah will automatically be attracted to Human Worship like Sufi-ism and Budh-ism etc. because ‘worship’ is a human instinct
2. One of my school mates, extremely rich people, when his father died; the heirs kept the corpse alive by all means.. heart beating, lungs respiring, food supplied, all systems of the body working for 14 days … but the corpse did not open eyes! So I have doubt about your theory of energy
3. About following the laws of sciences (physcs and chemistry etc) it is true for all plants; a plant will grow towards the sinlight, and if it is chopped, it will again grow in the same direction.. but a mouse once trapped in a mouse trap and seen by other mice, the other mice will defy the laws and skip the trap
4. How does Psychology fits in the laws of Science?
5. What is the defination of feelings of ‘Love’ ‘Hatrad’ ‘Hope’ ‘Fear’ and ‘Pain’ in Ethiest dictionary?
6. If death is ‘No Energy’ then why living beings Resist Death
7. Other then the ‘Aging’ then what is death due to other reason other then ‘injury’ or ‘disease’?
8. What is “Me” and what is “You”; Who is “I” who is controlling the corpse named “Nasar Usmani” and is enjoying the colors of life from the life till death of this corpse?
9. The messages are transmited from different parts of the body to the mind
a. What language do they speak; and who receives them
b. What we see and hear, who see this picture and listen
c. Who is making decisions for us
10. Without energy there is no intellegence (death) does it implies the most energetic creatures are more intellegent?
11. There will be no incentive to do good if there is no ‘After Life’. Being an aethist; you are lucky to descend a world that has already been put into some kind of order and you can talk of No-God, imagine if the world was descended by aetheists, the only laws governing the earth would be ‘Might is Right’ (Law of Energy)
12. As per thermo-dynamics, the life and death should be reversable reactions?
13. As the polulation of world is increasing daily implies; if we go back in time, the population was lesser, obviously, if we go even further back, it would be even lesser, common sense, eventually the human race started from ‘One Man and One Women’, most logical. Who created the first couple?
14. Lets assume the theory of Evolution is true! Then who created the raw material of human ancesters, monkey, frog, fish etc
15. Who created the ‘Big Bang’ and ‘Matter’ in the first place?
16. To believe in a ‘Creater’ is the most logical answer; so why not believe him in the first instance?
17. The whole Physics is based on “The Law of Gravitation” :-
Every two object in this universe exerts a force of attraction on each other. This force of attraction is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversly proportional to the square of the distance between their centre of gravities
This law is responsible for the atomic structures, the formation of nuclei, the orbitting of electrons. How does the dead masses have a sence to attract each other?
18. When two atoms of same valencies come near each other, instead of pushing each other away, they decide to share their electrons… who blessed them with this psyche
19. Without the ‘Gravitational pull’ the ‘Matter’ will dis-intigrate like ‘Smoke’
Quran: Then He turned straight to the sky, while it was a smoke, and said to it and to the earth, “Come (to My obedience), both of you, willingly or unwillingly.” Both said, “We come willingly.”
(11:41; verse 11, chapter 41(Ha Meem Sajda)”
@ John the Baptist
Dear; It was a beautiful surprise; Thanks a lot
Actually if someone says that he is very intollerant to remarks, is a false statement, suppose the same person has to catch a flight and is running short of time already, at that moment even if anybody insult him on his face, his first effort will be to avoid. So the ‘Tolerance’ comes with ‘Purpose’
People with purpose in their lives, other then the purpose of earning money, will always be humble and listening
Very few people have the courage to acknowledge their mistakes publically; you are indeed a brave man, you also have my deep respects and well wishes
Earlier, I had commented that basic character of a person does not change even if he converts; I illustrate, a drunker or a tyrant may become a gentle person but a cheater and a liar will remain a cheater and a liar, come what may
Unfortunately, we, the Muslims, do not have too many good examples to present, but the fact is that Islam is ‘The Path’ to salvation
Just like a broken car will take you no where, the hope of reaching the destiny is only with a good car provided it is running in the right direction
I had prayed in my prayers for you by name that I need to see you in Islam. Now it is a test for me to know if my prayers are accepted by our Lord
Dear all Christian Brothers
If you really respect your prophet Jesus than please know that Jesus never preached hatrad, he used the best and polite language even to his worst enemies.
And as you beleive, he also pardoned his murderers.
Then who taught you to use insulting and humiliating language?
When talking of Islam:
1. Please do not take precedences from Saudis, Youtube uploads, hear-says, Wikipedia etc,
The source of Wikipedia information is ‘citation’ by just anyone. They have no system to verify an information through intellectuals
2. When refering from Quran please give full reference and read verses before and after as required to have full context
FOR EXAMPLE: In the constitution and books of law of your country, atleast at 200 places will be writen “The convict to be hanged till death” so does it make your constitution a Barberic book? NO unless you read the complete clause of law you will come to know that the verdict of death is for certain in-excusable crime..
Similarly
Someone just quoted from Quran “kill them where ever you find them” etc
Please also read where it in context; it was said for the indifels of Mecca who violated the 10 years peace treaty of Hudabiya and killed 70 innocent un-armed Muslims
And please also read where it is writen:
“And if you have truce with them then obey the truce”
“if they violate the truce, kill them”
“Taking revenge is permitted; eye for eye, finger for finger, but do not transgress”
“those who forgive, their case rests with Allah”
“Allah do not like transgressors”
“Transgressors will never be benefited”
“Charities increase your wealth amd Usury (Interest) takes you to recession”
AND so many similar subjects
@Nasar – I didn’t expect your reply. I am quite surprised at how you handled my insulting words. You are a better man than I and with legitimate arguments. Good job! I know it won’t sound like much from a bigot like me, but you have my respect.
1. You did not insult anyone else’s beliefs.
2. You are trying to get people to understand the controversial proverbs.
3. You discredit extremists and acknowledge we are all brothers.
You know, I think I will take this chip off of my shoulder and try to be a better person. Sometimes anger and hatred runs amok, like a snowball effect. I really did need that. Thank you.
JanB as you said, there is always a sect in a relegion, no sect is also a sect
You said “There isn’t any religion on the planet without sects, every one claims to own the truth (meaning, the other sects don’t) and to defend it ”
Like wise, every one has a relegion, even no relegion is also a relegion:)
in mathematics, a ‘Nul’ set is also a set
From mathematics to physics is a small step. Creatures are governed by the laws of thermodynamics just as combustion engines are. The difference regards the degree of complexity, not the principle.
Aging is no more than a euphemism to describe the effects of decreasing energy available for a creature and it is inevitable, due to incomplete or erroneous auto-repair mechanisms. Accompanied with the process is inescapable suffering.
Religions and philosophies are supposed to provide a solution. The proper ones do not violate natural laws (physics, chemistry, biology etc.) whereas improper ones (often sects) do, without mentioning it.
From that perspective it’s easy to make a selection: at death there’s no energy for an afterlife and certainly not for one without an end.
If something like “the truth” exists, it has to be discovered here and now. In Islam, better be silent about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Al-Hallaj
whereas in Theravada Buddhism, you’ll find acknowledgment of enlightenment, nirvana and the way:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ntwpx1oVvSEC&dq=%22Buddhist+ethics%22+Saddhatissa&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=mRRuSrKo4w&sig=qUj7zMYLEaMf2_Lwy7THVK0CHMo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=false
John The Baptist
I am sure prophet Jesus never taught you to use such a filthy language even to your worst enemies.. so who actually are you following?
You are absolutely right about Saudis.. so if their women are fully veiled and such high is the crime ratio; imagine, if their ladies were dressed like your women, what would hapen then?
We migrate to your countries just for one reason; “The Rule of Law” this is why the animals like John the Baptist can only ‘bark’ and not ‘bite’
The art fags.
JanB
The black veil for ladies is mainly a cultural thing please try to understand, in my country, even the Christian girls wear it, and in Afghanistan even the Buddhist ladies do burqa, even before the country went to Taliban
The “Hijab” means modesty, not only in dress but also in behavior, in talking, in all walks of life. And Hijab implies both to men and women
Islam does not specify a uniform in dress (like the priests and nuns or Rabbis) it just lays out a code… Men: Must cover from Naval to Knees… Women; whole body less the face, hands, feet
Some ladies over do the hijab (covering the face etc) but no one compels them to do so, they do it by choice
And it is not a matter of equality alone… ask any archaeologist, if they find a skeleton, how do they tell it belonged to a male or a female corpse.. the Anatomy of men and women is not same. Female body is more susceptible to weather; don’t know why
I am not a physician, so I guess it with common sense; please put me right if wrong
The countries where women do hijab so heavy, you will find their men also dressed in thick clothes.. it is requirement of certain cultures, weather, and financial situation etc
Your link: The Sufi school of thought, I do not agree with them, they take the followers to lethargy. These schools represent personal interpretation of few individuals
Search a PDF copy of Quran from internet, then with Ctrl-F command you can search for word you need query
OR send me a test mail on [email protected] I will send you or try to reply your queries
The Arabs here truly make me laugh when it comes to making excuses for the mummification of their women. Divorce, cheating, temptation, weather…. ah hahahah. Nothing is better for protecting yourself when it is 110 degrees fahrenheit outside than a black blanket…. ah hahaha. It was best spoken from a Jordanian sailor in Auquaba… “men are for pleasure and women are for babies.” Homosexuality and pedophilia is rampart in the middle east due to Islam. The unholy Koran speaks quite vividly on the womanizing, pedophilia, and murder committed by the false prophet Muhammad. For the arab women here, why can’t you drive an automobile or travel without an escort in Saudi Arabia? To prevent temptation of other Arab men? Why can’t these arab men restrain themselves from raping and victimizing women? I guess your women are too stunning for the world to see. Is that temptation too strong to prevent rape? Why do arab men need multiple wives? Is that fair to a living, breathing, freethinking human being? Let’s go back to this Koran and wonderful religion of Islam.
Here are some of my favorite passages…
1. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah
2. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
3. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves
Your prophet Mohammed was one man who was divinely flawed. First off, he was a murderer. Many innocent men, women, and children suffered his wrath. I guess you Allah thinks children deserve death, the most innocent of creatures. Second, he had sex with children. I seriously believe this Mohammed was a false prophet sent by the devil to deceive people into worshiping him. Your paradise is hell and Mohammed was a con artist who sold his soul to take over the world.
The true God and creator, was loving and peaceful. Jesus was sent by god and his character was never flawed such was Mohammed’s. Jesus taught people to forgive, be fair, and told them what was good to eat years before science proved him correct. Jesus performed miracles and told people to have faith in the real God, no false idols such as your Allah. Jesus was very animate in telling people to understand people. We will do bad things at times but try to be better than that. If you do something wrong, or sin, you will be forgiven if you truly remorse your actions.
If you people want to spew your hate, intolerance, and violence, do it in the middle east. Do not come to our homes and try to indoctrinate our superior societies into your “slave” type totalitarianism.
If you want to see some good videos on how muslims are nice people, search for these.
Islamic peace squad decapitates young boys
http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2008/07/six-russian-conscripts-beheading_7739.html
Afghan couple refuse pre-arranged marriages and gets the peaceful love of Allah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR5nCe73Oe8&feature=player_embedded
So you animals go back from whence you came. You are not welcome and are greatly outnumbered. You will not dominate the world with this hateful Islam. Fucking disgusting bastards.
Having visited Bosnia some 40 years ago, it was clear that if there was a dress code for Bosnian Muslims, it was invisible for tourists.
But nowadays in the EU, Muslims are against a ban on proclaimed “Islamic” dress (elsewhere on this electronic newspaper).
Regarding schools of Sufism, there are many. There isn’t any religion on the planet without sects, every one claims to own the truth (meaning, the other sects don’t) and to defend it eventually by the sword, oblivious that “all those that live by the sword will die by the sword”.
That alone ought to be a reminder, no one has the truth, and to stay away from religion and similar beliefs.
Bosnia Hercigovinia, Kosovo, Checheniya, Osesia, Faghestan, Ingushetia, France and Germany..
What Taliban with all their terror could not acheive in Afghanistan and Pakistan for three decades, the Soviets, Yougoslaves and now Europeans have done in few days
In France perhaps the Islamist extremist parties would have failed over years to compell the Muslim girls to follow Hijab; one stupid bill of French parliament on ban of Hijab and now all Muslims ladies will follow Hijab
Earlier; The muslims might be doing Kosher in the backyard of their houses, if the German parliament approve this bill, you will see Muslims Kosher the animals for halaal meat on the highways
The Muslim abondoned their homes and opted to become a minority in your countires; not to be humiliated, but to earn an honorable living and live peacefully. Please respect their sacrifices
And “Do not corner the cat” dont disturb the behives, Do not instigate them, they are just 1%-2% let them live peacefully, because if you leave them with no option, they will still not go back to their homelands, but they will EXPLODE like a DYNAMITE
Mr JanB; about relegions, people form sects to satisfy their malicious desires
It is said in the books of Law “Facts can never be killed” anyone desirous of finding the truth, he gets it once he thinks beyond his vested interests.
That foreign workers weren’t treated well has been documented by Günter Wallraff (Germany) who managed to get a job, disguised as a Turk. Biography:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Wallraff
But not only Turks or other Muslims were treated badly, the same goes for Cape-Verdians. When pressed, they will tell you that the German word still remembered is “Schweinehund”.
The present problems that have arisen due to the US-instigated economic crisis could have been prevented by a list of requirements for immigrants, like speaking the foreign language well enough to get things done, and to abide by the law of that country unconditionally. Some of that has been corrected though and for the offspring of most immigrants, fluent in the foreign language and educated well, that didn’t have to be pointed out. The problem is discrimination (skin color).
Regarding religion, if for one reason or another it can serve warfare or slaughter in general, the founder has failed.
The claim of a religion to be the truth already is a guarantee for war because any other religion can do the same and then the religion with the biggest guns and the most bombs is “right”.
From that perspective the Judaic religions have failed miserably as their followers (mostly Christians though) still are bingeing on (environmental) destruction with the lie of “economic growth” on a planet with finite (and rapidly dwindling) resources.
What immigrants go through has been documented fairly well by Günter Wallraff, disguised as Turkish immigrant:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Wallraff
There was such a need for cheap laborers that the legal aspects (language, abiding by the law of the secular country unconditionally) have been neglected. Some has been corrected though, offspring from immigrants usually speak the language well, but when discriminated because of the recession, without a job, what remains is Islamic identity. So this could be addressed fairly well – unless the govt seeks a scapegoat for its failures and selects Muslims.
Regarding religions, if they can be interpreted to wage war, they can be called failures. Proclaiming to own the truth is such a reason to wage war, whether on a global scale (US) or limited scale (proselytization).
From that perspective, Judaic religions are are failure. The biggest war regards the US-led war on Gaia and there’s no end in sight.
Ammar Khan Love your invitation to JanB
JanB ever since you came into this discussion, I read your comments with respect, you are a learned person and it was pleasure having you
JanB basic character of a person does not change
For example you are a decent Ethiest and once you convert to islam, you will be a decent Muslim
The others (no names) were rude and arrogant christians, if at all they convert, they will be rude and arrogant Muslim, dejected member of the society
And please do not quote Saudia, their days are counted. They are opressors, the way they treat their expat labors, weather muslim or non-muslim, relegating their women to background, the satanic life style of their sheikhs, they can use relegion (Fatwa) and sometimes force as a tool to get their objectives
Terrorism, Opression, indecency, has no nationality and follow no relegion
And to the slaughtering; as you said yourself, “..there’s no way yet to know what the dying creature is going through.” then the most rational approach left with us is .. do as the creator has asked us to do
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=12&mac=
please read Quran Translation, it is a slim book you can read easily; see you in Islam soon inshallah
There are many texts not only claiming that one’s personality has to change but even instruct on the conditions how it can happen. Two examples:
http://www.samainitiative.com/philosophyandbranches.html
“Nibbana according to Buddhism is not a life in heaven after death, but absolute peace of mind attained here and now by the eradication of all
unwholesome and evil roots of human behaviour. Nibbana, as conceived in the most authoritative literature of Theravada Buddhism, is not a metaphysical being, but the radical transformation of personality leading to inner peace and tranquillity.”
http://profpremasiri.com/Papers/PDF/13.%20Buddhist%20Values%20in%20the%20Emerging%20Global%20Culture.pdf
Regarding the Saudis and other slaves of passions, to conquer their desire for women,they should read this:
http://cosmopolis.com/alexandria/hypatia-bio-suda.html
It is most unlikely I will join religion, for the simple reason that when experientially familiar with one exponent of “the inner way” one is familiar with all. A summary of available ways (including Islam): http://psychologicalresources.blogspot.com/2008_11_09_archive.html
Esoteric Teachings Of Prophet Muhammad:
https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=166753591090&topic=12740
Listen, Nasar Usmani & Ammar Khan…
Why should we follow translations by muslims. We know about KITMAN and TAQIYYAH / TAQIYA – lying to and deceiving everyone about the true nature of your religion and what your true end-goal is.
Pointing fingers at Jews, Christians or Atheists does not fix what’s wrong with islam. Your deflection tactics are just some of the ways in which you practice taqiyya. We know that.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/Quran_Hate.htm
The Prophet called, “War (i.e. jihad) is deceit”
“I have been made victorious with terror” Bukhari Vol. 4, Book 52, #220 8:12 “… I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers” 8:60 “… to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah (“Unbelievers” 8:59)”
Jihad stands on two legs. One is terror and the other is deception or Taqiyyah 3:28, 16:106, 5:51 (PDF 198 KB)
Fighting jihad is prescribed for ALL Muslims (2:216) against the 8:55, 98:6 “vilest of animals” (Unbelievers)
Bukhari Vol. 4, Book 52, #72 “Whoever amongst us is killed (as a martyr, “Mujahid”) will go to Paradise”
http://newstime.co.nz/cair-bin-laden-did-not-represent-muslims-or-islam.html
Death penalty for apostasy (leaving islam)
http://schnellmann.org/death_for_apostasy.html
ISLAM WILL CONQUEROR (61:9) & DOMINATE THE WORLD (2:193; 8:39; 9:33)
Qur’an 33:57 – 61
(61) “They [Muslims] shall have a curse on them [unbelievers]: wherever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without Mercy).”
http://newstime.co.nz/example-of-the-violence-direct-from-allah-33-61.html
Be sure to read the Sunnah and Hadith too, especially things like mutilating innocent little girls (Female Genital Mutilation)
Female genital mutilation “is part of the Sunna of the Prophet”
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/05/31/female-genital-mutilation-is-part-of-the-sunna-of-the-prophet/comment-page-1/
London: “Islam will dominate the world”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384353/Osama-bin-Laden-mock-funeral-Fury-erupts-outside-US-Embassy-London.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/muslims-hold-mock-funeral-for-bin-laden-in-london-threatening-revenge-and-waving-signs-proclaiming-i.html
Another sterling example of the duplicity – publicly saying one thing in English and another in Arabic
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-mosab-yousef-saga-did-hamas-%e2%80%98defector%e2%80%99-dupe-all-of-us/?singlepage=true
History of Jihad
http://www.historyofjihad.org/
Faith Freedom
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
NIGERIA: Charred, mutilated Christian corpses line the roads after Muslims go wild http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/nigeria-charred-christian-corpses-line-the-roads-after-muslims-go-wilding/
NIGERIA: Christian pastor and wife burned to death by Muslims
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/04/17/nigeria-christian-pastor-and-wife-burned-to-death-by-muslims/
Shariah Nigeria: Cutting out tongues and hacking off limbs
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/nigerian-muslims-kill-12-more-christians-cut-out-their-tongues/
Muslim pedophiles – bacha bazi boys
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/muslim-sex-slaves-bacha-bazi-aka-boy-play-where-very-young-boys-are-the-entertainment-for-grown-men
Mr. Nasar Usmaini yes I agree with you but people can’t go saying things that don’t know about! People, groups, and nations are often misjudged when there is no hard evidence.
JanB, the prohibition of these things is not the wrong approach. The woman don’t have to wear thick layers, the body parts just have to be covered. This isn’t a wrong approach the approach is perfectly fine, it may be emphasized too much if the people have to wear deep layers. Some people may work on it too hard, but as long as the body parts are concealed its fine. Many woman have hijaab without wearing an abayya or burqa. Its one of the most simplest ways of preventing mixing between men and women. Many things are prevented this way, and in Saudi Arabia women aren’t known to go out much during the day, in fact they roam the malls and go shopping at night. Woman cover their bodies so that other men don’t get tempted by them. Women may uncover themselves in front of their husbands and close family members. When woman are covered, men don’t look or can’t look at them. Men can only look at their wives and this is one of the reasons. When I state these things I’m not attacking or harming anyone. All I’m saying are facts, I previously stated things against Christianity, those things I didn’t mean them. There are different beliefs and religions throughout the world.
Now as for the animal, in the olden days this was the easiest way. The Blade should be extremely sharp, and the person cutting the animal should do it quickly. This is to minimize the pain. You state, with the videos, that animals feel pain and activities in the brain can’t be confirmed. Well, there are other practices by non-muslims in these countries. Where animals have gone through sterilization, doesn’t that seem like animal torture? That’s an extremely painful thing. yet its still practiced.
Lastly, I’d like to invite you to Islam. Yes, there have been many so called terrorist attacks and there are huge amounts of media propaganda against Muslims, but that doesn’t mean Islam is a bad religion. Look into it for yourself, you may find something that pleases you. I have no intention to continue in this argument. May Allah guide us All!
There are too many examples that prohibition doesn’t work, except for criminals for whom trade becomes more profitable. Just two: alcoholic beverages (USA, great profit for Al Capone & gangsters) and drugs (USA, source of income for the CIA). Just Google “boliviana negra” and “supercoca” to see what damage is inflicted on people and environment.
When “female” includes the association of Islamic dress like veils, the result only is dissociation from women dressed otherwise. IOW the desires are directed to the veiled woman. Why? Attraction is a case of subliminal smell (works both ways). Draconian penalties work though, when taught from early age on. But teaching raja yoga (control over tendencies) would be far more beneficial.
Regarding Islam, it’s a pity that (just like in most religions) believers do not have the slightest idea regarding transformation of personality and the process related to it. This article might be a good start:
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/publications/journals/review/apr89/7.htm
It is but the tip of the iceberg though, when investigating favoring conditions regarding the issue of “salaat” (eventually from other disciplines) it is impossible to overlook that slaughter (irrespective how it is done) has a negative influence.
Mr Ammar Khan
Actually there is 0% un-employment, no foriegn debt, no power or enviroment problems, all schools are working well, no crimes to solve, no social and ethnic problems.. what else to do.. empty mind is a devil’s workshop
what then the parliamentarians do.. make bills like this, weather to ban Kosher or not, how to put ban on Hijab, how to stop circumcission
just like India and Pakistan, our politics work on mutual hatred, European politics also work same way “Anti-Islamic”
Now in our country if some politician give a statement against India and do nothing; we welcome him with shoes and stones
German nation is such a simple people; someday near they will also mature up and will hold their parliamenterians collars and question them “stop bothering about the 1% community and provide us employment”
That day Europe will be real free once they will reject all Hitlers
Well Anthony Cloud you have stated quite some facts about Muslims. Now, lets look at the facts of Christians or other religions that oppose Islam.
First off, your opinion of Muslims being barbaric is without facts. Many protests that Muslims is because of the love of their religion. Salman Rushdi wrote books that state LIES about Islam. If any person did that for Christianity or your beliefs, the people would act in the same way.
Now about woman, Let me tell you one thing. Islam does not treat women like toys that go around showing off their features so that everyone can have a touch. Muslim woman wear burqa’s and cover their body parts for specific reasons. To protect their eyes from the gaze of men. A BLACK abayya or cover is not required, the main part is that it should conceal the body parts. You think that woman aren’t treated with respect, your views are clearly one-sided. In Islam woman are treated properly, they are covered to protect themselves. You do not understand this fact and are clearly mistaken. Look at most of the countries in Europe and look at the West. Woman walk around freely, families are torn apart because of many of these reasons. Men get tempted by woman, and in the West wifes cheat on husbands, husbands cheat around wifes. There are many divorced families. Children are also born with parents that aren’t married. Muslims do not have that life style, and if you find Muslims like that, then they aren’t an example of what Islam is really like. Muslims have order, marriage is what builds families. They are not like animals that go around freely mixing with other men and women feeding their own lust, which was what is happening in most of the European countries. You say we don’t treat our women with respect, yet it is you who disrespect woman. What happened in Europe 10-15 years ago? What’s happening in Bosnia? Muslims are being oppressed, they are not the oppressors! The women are being raped just because of their belief! In Bahrain you stated people drinking alcohol and playing around with women. Those are bad examples of Muslims. Now in what countries is alcohol legal? The United States. Teenagers get drunk and engage in sexual activities at early ages. Yet you say you respect woman? There are several Christians that commit such deeds that of those who stated in Bahrain. I can say the exact same thing. In Palestine fight for land, killing Muslims. Yet you with such hypocritical views call Muslims Barbaric? Open your eyes! Look at what’s really happening instead of listening to fabrication by the media. Be against Islam, its your choice, your loss. However, you can’t go around stating things that aren’t true. As for this article, there is a reason for the way animals are slaughtered. Its in order for the animal to feel minimum pain when it dies. Its done as quickly as possible. Its not meant for torture, look at how animals are treated at farms in your country. Many of the male animals have their organs cut off, just so they can control the amount of pregnant animals? That is what torture is, not how Muslims slaughter animals.
Without America and Europe these countries would still live in the desert. Thats better than whats going on now. Look at the troops going into Palestine, murdering innocent people. You state that Muslims are being barbaric, yet the evidence shows that Christians are the ones killing and murdering innocent victims.
Lastly I’d like to state that all your claims are false and misjudged. These statements are nothing but the words of a hypocrite. Know your facts before you write anything down, know the difference between facts and opinion! From all the world events it can be seen that Christian’s “religion” seem to be oppressing others. You mock the belief of Muslims, look at your own. Look at the distortions that have come, look at how many people don’t even care about their religion to begin with. Muslims are being oppressed for no reason, the real terrorists are the ones that are starting such things. Some Muslims may be bad, others are good. You can’t judge your facts on just the bad ones! Your statements are clearly hypocritical, and woman aren’t being respected when there are strip clubs, and mini skirts as the dress code of schools!
Hiding women behind veils in order to prevent lustful looks is the wrong approach: it leaves the culprits unpunished / unchanged whereas the victims are punished by layers of clothing and often in a hot climate.
What should have happened instead is the realization that lust (be it regarding gold, oil, a harem or meat consumption) is an affliction that should and could have been addressed properly.
In this respect (maintaining the status quo) there is no difference regarding Christianity and Islam (and other institutionalized religions that promise the continuation of sensual / lustful pleasures ad infinitum in an afterlife).
No difference either between branches like Gnosticism and Sufism either as both teach the way to a state beyond affliction. But for clerics and their flock that is a nightmare: in such a state beyond affliction the need for clerics or scriptural explanation is zero and parents can teach their children.
So people are left ignorant of the fact that even when measured brain activity is zero, there can be cases of NDE (Near Death Experience) or OBE (Out of Body Experience). Hence proof of the absence of brain activity (often used to justify a method of slaughter) is invalid: there’s no way yet to know what the dying creature is going through.
Hence the conclusion that institutionalized religion could not survive without the lustfulness that keeps man bonded and afflicted while in his lust for more and more sensual pleasures, destroys the very life support system he depends on.
A few examples that Islamic prohibition does not work (when busy, just read the last):
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=198583
http://londonprogressivejournal.com/article/735/saudi-sheik%27s-obsession-with-sex-fatwas
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/whisky-women-and-weapons/2007/06/11/1181414209085.html?page=fullpage
William Tell
in response to all your videos, I present only one link posted by Mr JanB
http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2d.htm
Can someone recall how the world looked like before the advent of Islam? or how was the world before Prophet Jesus or Prophet Moses?
William Tell, I can not reply you in the same roten tone, this is something below me
But I do understand your position…
Children grown up without getting due love and attention of their parents and dejected elements of society talk exactly like you do
Civilised nations talk in legal language only and I wish people like you do not represent the majority of German nation
Dear All; let us revert to the main subject:
Netherlands to vote on law banning slaughter of meat by halal and kosher methods
JanB
I read your link full word by word
We Muslims also went through the same stage somehow, the situation was although not that severe because Quran exists in a living language, it is not so thick, and it is in easy reach of all common people who can read and challange the authority of dictators. Whatever
Your argument; that Christians had committed a lot more crimes against humanity although strengthens my position but NO
Terrorism has no nationality and follows no relegion
The userpers of other’s right will use all tools, sometimes relegion sometimes power to curb the weak, maybe women maybe poor muslim or non-muslim
Mr Sher Khan; the mis-information about Muslims is partly due to Zionist organisations and rest because of recent happening in our countries, the good thing about germans is, once they know the reality, they always join with the party who is on the right.
There is a difference between non-islamic and anti-islamic
It will be very difficult to find Buddhist terrorists as that religion considers “the end of suffering” the ultimate goal. It is logical that one cannot realize the end of suffering by inflicting it on other creatures, but by raising one’s awareness on the issue and to act accordingly, instead.
It might be clear that a philosophical system or religion that doesn’t inflict harm, is vulnerable to those wishing to inflict harm, like the extremist Muslims in Afghanistan who destroyed statues just because they didn’t suit their brand of religion.
But whereas atrocities against practicing minorities (like gnostics in Christianity) might have been suspended, minorities in Islam (like Sufis) still are targeted by the extremists – cases that have been published, Iran and Pakistan.
In a country like Saudi Arabia, someone like Ibn Arabi still might be called a heretic whereas even Buddhists not only understand but can appreciate his works (like the description of the stations on the path).
But when taking into account that the global undertaking of the Anglo-Saxon world + Israel could be considered a case of state-supported terrorism, the cases of terrorism under the Islamic banner (sometimes hired by the Anglo-Saxon conglomerate, also for false flag operations)are far less.
To return to the topic of slaughter, if you give a toddler a fig and a rabbit, will it eat the rabbit and play with the fig?
Anyone thinking that Islam is the ‘religion’ of love, peace and tolerance and that they are obedient and loyal to ANY country, should watch these video clips : –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWTtMDI7GJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAivyEazJQ0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6125zLmUUc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgjF1jpWKrE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejc6L28R-4c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP5XMOOelfU&feature=related
and pure love shining through : –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dB_ovpy188&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rKlL44FOo&feature=player_embedded
I’s in The Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Germany and America, and these bastards say they are revolting for DEMOCRACY. Most of them can’t even spell the word and what they REALLY want is Sharia Law world-wide and their satanic ‘religion’.
Time to stand up and say “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH” the next time you go to the Ballot Box in EVERY civilized country.
Pork is the answer,we eat pork.
Mr Anthony Cloud
Congradulations! you won, and I have no desire to win this argument with you; Because I can not go below the least standard of dignity expected of a human being to immitate a tone tone that you understand
However; I am optimistic that majority of the German Nation is civilised, they know how to talk purposeful in a polite and decent language
Bye to you
Yes good bye to you. And good riddance.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
PS. Flattery will get you nowhere. So you can stick your ‘moral-highground-holy-hypocrisy-and-deception’ taqiyya tactics in the same place as your moon-god – where the sun doesn’t shine.
We’re not falling for it.
Mr JanB
We should all reduce meat consumption, it is also a cause of obesity, and damage to enviroment as you said
BUT if at all we must eat, then Islamic slaughtering is the best way of obtaining safest meat, and is less painful to the animal as well
excess of anything is bad
Thanks
The issue reminds of the time that the scientific view was, “fish cannot suffer because they are lacking a nervous system”. I even knew people who consumed fish for that reason and nevertheless called themselves vegetarian.
A few years ago it was proven that fish do sense (the equivalent of) pain so those lacking empathy but believing blindly in science (instead of verifying it first) had to admit years of wrongdoing.
Science has found a way to produce meat that can be consumed without administering suffering though: it can be grown in the lab and because heart and other organs aren’t required, can be consumed without slaughter and the inevitable suffering related to that.
JanB, you are a moron. This discussion is NOt about what YOU choose to eat. It’s about Halal slaughter of animals, or are you too dense to realise that.
Just like it’s our ‘Human Right’ to follow whatever religion and deity we choose to believe in, it’s equally our human right to EAT whatever we choose. No-one is trying to force you to eat meat, or any food at all for that matter. What YOU choose to do is YOUR business. It’s doesn’t impinge in any way in my beliefs or way of life. Islam and Halal DOES.
Look up the word ‘D.E.M.O.C.R.A.C.Y” in a dictionary, sutup a web site where you can expound your views and theories, but stop trying to force them onto me. I LIKE meat. I eat meat twice a day, every day and I will continue to do so until I die.
One of those proud Christians, Anthony? Fresh up your memory regarding the Christian way of slaughter:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2d.htm
Christians still behave according to that proud heritage and you consider your way of slaughter superior than Halal? I can assure you that the victims of your Christian “civilization”, past and present, do not agree.
Anthony, I totally agree with you. Except that I’m worried I’ll die of a heart attack or stroke if I eat food fried in pig-fat all day. BUT I DO for example make a point of ordering pizzas with ham or bacon etc.
Besides, HALAL FOOD FUNDS TERRORISTS AND DRIVES UP FOOD PRICES & INFLATION because food companies have to pay muslims to approve the ‘halaal status’.
Recently, a Bosnian mufti said: “HALAL FOOD CAN LEAD MUSLIMS TO DOMINATE WORLD ECONOMY”
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2010/12/bosnia-mufti-halal-food-movement-can.html
Can’t say I’m surprised though: “Islam” does mean “to submit” after all and we all know they are all about domination, from their woman, to other religions (through murder & jizya etc) to the entire world with their disgusting “global caliphate”.
We should start a worldwide BOYCOTT HALAL campaign.
And apparently JanB hasn’t yet heard the term “CLIMATE-GATE”.
I’m referring to the scientists tossing out data which doesn’t fit in with the ‘climate change’ agenda etc. What the hell sort of research is that? I just call it FRAUD.
This climate change ’caused by humans’ thing is BS. I DO agree that we MUST do our best to live sustainably and not pollute the environment. This is very important to me. Our health & survival depend on the health of the environment and it’s just right to do so.
But the climate is changing because it’s a natural cycle of earth. There have been changes in climate (eg ICE AGES) ever since the beginning of the earth.
In fact, the last Ice Age was about 12,000 years ago, which puts us right on track for a new cycle round about now. Just look at all those terrible snowstorms in Europe and the US in places which do not normally get snow. Ever.
We do NOT cause ‘Climate Change’ and there’s NOTHING we can do about it. It’s just the way the world works. And I’m fed up with hearing all the whining about it.
There were periods during the Middle Ages that were much warmer in Europe than now.
This climate change BS is probably just another excuse for Marxists to tax hard-working people & drive up inflation, and implement Cloward-Piven to ease communist take-over.
Request to the Netherland Government
1. Love of Humanity is more important then love of animals, please do not hurt the feelings of Muslim community; they are obedient and loyal to your country
2. Stunning an animal before slaughtering is barberic and must be stopped immediately
3. Stunning just makes an animal shocked and paralysed to react, thus only making the job of butcher easy but gives no pain releif to the animal
4. If stunning would ever help releive a living being of any severe pain, then, all patients in hospitals should also be stunned before a surgical operation instead of administering anesthesia
5. Blood of an animal is not at all healthy for human consumption and is un-ethical as well
6. Severing the throat of an animal with a sharp edge knife is the only effective way of quenching the blood out of carcass
7. As compared to stunning, severing the throat is less painful to an animal as less blood is flowing to the brain
8. Delecacies foods should be absolutely banned
9. Muslims generally are more fond of eating non-vegetables; serving halaal meat will encourage muslims to increase their spendings, this will give a boost to the tourism and food industry of your country
Nasar, let me put you right on this. I have nothing against you as a person, only your barbaric, disgusting and medieval so-called ‘religion’.
You are talking drivel. Your fellow barbarians murdered Theo van Gogh in broad daylight in the Netherlands, because he didn’t agree with your medieval philosophy. The British ex-minister Stephen Timms was stabbed by a Muslim woman who tried to kill him. His sole crime was that he also didn’t agree with your medieval philosophy. Your animal brethren ran amok and savagely murdered people of the UN in Afghanistan as well as Christians in Nigeria, because someone over 6,000 miles away in America burned your satanic bible. Yet your fellow barbarians confiscate and burn Christian Bibles whenever they find them in YOUR medieval countries and this is OK I suppose.
This has nothing to do with only inhumanely torturing animals; this is to do with the entire tenet of your philosophy. Islam is the ONLY religion which exhorts its followers to murder anyone who doesn’t agree with them. Don’t plead it’s your rulers, your rulers didn’t murder van Gogh or Stephen Timms, nor did they slaughter innocent people because someone more than 6,000 miles away burned their misguided bible.
Your “loyal and obedient” Muslims in the Netherlands have threatened to murder Geert Wilders because he also, like myself, knows that your way of life, your ‘religion’, your treatment of women and animals, your laziness and constant groveling are incompatible with our Christian way of life. Salmon Rushti in the UK is still in hiding because of your barbaric ‘religion’.
It has NOTHING to do with revolutions, leader or anyone else. You and your kind are Muslims by choice. You don’t have the brainpower to realize that the reason you only eat and shake hands with your right hand, is because in you desert dwellers in your tents hadn’t invented proper housing, towns and cities, running water or toilet paper. You don’t have the brains to work out that the reason your women wore Burkhas in your desert tents, was to stop them from getting burned, getting heatstroke and turning black, because like African Blacks, you prefer light-skinned women to negroids.
Because you are still savages, you don’t have the capability of love for your women, you treat them as third-class slaves who have no rights and no possessions and are subject only to the whims of their male slave-drivers.
Your religion and your philosophy are totally incompatible with ours. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR RULERS. I suspect that when all the revolts are over, every country will become like Saudi, including yours.
ALL Muslims want to impose Islam and Sharia Law world-Wide. You have NO respect for us and we in turn should have NO respect for you. If you feel that what I am saying doesn’t apply to you, you have a choice, either find another religion OR KEEP OUT OF OUR COUNTRIES. Although our equally corrupt Governments choose to try to appease you, we the people are getting more and more pissed off with your medieval behavior with every passing day.
Islam is incompatible with every other religion in the world. It’s like a huge festering boil, not only in the USA and the Netherlands, but world-wide and one day this boil will burst open and WW3 will be Islam v The Rest. We know you are trying to breed yourself into a position where you can take over the world, but I think this festering boil will be cut open before that day comes.
In conclusion, I repeat, I have nothing against you as a person, but whilst you still believe in the rubbish that you refer to as a religion, KEEP OUT OF OUR COUNTRIES. We are CHRISTIANS and it’s our human right to belive in Jehovah, Thor, Satan, Buddha, Vulcan or any other deity we wish to believe in and follow and THAT is what democracy is about. It isn’t about swapping a leader that hasn’t given you everything you want, for another who will do the same, it’s about the RIGHT, the HUMAN RIGHT, to follow whatever deity we happen to believe in, so DO NOT come again with your bullshit about fighting for democracy. You wouldn’t know what democracy was, even if it bit your ear off and kicked you in the arse!
Thankyou JanB for supporting my opinion
Stunning an animal before slaughhtering only renders an animal shocked and paralysed to react and there is no reduction in pain
Please also confirm that eating blood is medically unhealthy
Severing the throat is the only effective way of quenching the whole blood out of body of carcass
I don’t support your opinion. Religions proclaim man’s superiority and subsequently derive the right to kill all other creatures plus unbelieving humans and the global environment from that.
Every creature being killed undergoes a form of suffering but the killers are bereft of empathy so do not notice that.
Trying to be “right” by speculating on which type of suffering is less is exactly the depravity required for resource and other types of religious wars included the war on Gaia (global environment).
Good luck with that: the damage to the environment (runaway climate change)already is irreversible.
Mr JohnB
For your self, please visit my neighbors, they have a lot of cockroaches and insects you can consume..
this discussion is not about being a vegiterian… it is about the animals to be taken for human consumption
If at all animal meat has to be consumed, is it huygenic to eat the blood with the meat?
Muslim slaughtering is the only healthy way to quench all blood from animal carcass
moreover, it is less painful to animal as very less blood is flowing to his brain
If it wasn’t clear, meat consumption is a case of self-torture, not fundamentally different from the (ab)use of alcohol, tobacco or other drugs.
For their fix, addicts eventually will revert to violence. From that perspective, killing animals in a barbaric religious ritual isn’t much different from drugging them first and killing them later, with the unproven presupposition the animals do not notice their impending end for instance via horrific dreams.
In case it hasn’t been noticed yet: One addiction easily leads to another, and addiction whether to meat, gold, oil or just cocaine, invariably leads to much violence.
Mr Anthony Cloud:
I do not deny your observations but your deductions were not too correct
For example; in my country the Pakistani-Christians are as lazy as the Pakistani-Muslims. And I worked in a Labanonese-Christian company and they were as good cheaters as any Middle-Eastern-Muslim
About the treatment of women in Saudi-Arabia, any person for that matter who is not willing to give other’s their due right will always use all available tools, sometimes relegion sometimes power, to inflict un-justice to the weaker party, and it has nothing to do with gender-creed-relegion. See how they treat ex-patriates be muslims or non-muslims, and women; any weak community.
And this is the uprising and un-rest in most of the muslim is about! The days of all these cruel monarch have been counted and very soon Muslim World will be a better place to live, better then Europe may be
But as you said; since such crime happened against a non-muslim in a muslim country, so you will also do similar crime to muslim minority in your countries… certain crimes are not reciprocated for example; if I hit you so you also hit me; this is justice. But if I am indecent to you then you don’t be indecent to me because this is immodesty
The Muslim community that you have in your countries are too humble and modest people, these are the people who migrated to your countries because they wanted to keep away from dirty politics of their countries, so please don’t be rude to them
Why the muslims are so backward? Suppose you are the CEO of an organization, and through treachery or through a legal move; you are removed from your position and asked to work as a Director, you will most probably reject, and you might work in any other organization even as a Manager, but many people will take advantage of this change, it is but natural. Similalry, Muslims were ruled out from their lands either by treason or by force, the Muslims refused to accept the new master relegated themselves to the background, it is a temporary phase and we will soon be out of it
Please do not combine what you see in Muslim world and Islam, your knowledge about Islam is too in-sufficient. Quran is not too thick book, I suggest you read Quran by translation; follow this link
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=4&mac
No matter how animals are slaughtered, meat consumption in general is unsustainable. Cattle contributes a lot to climate change due to the emission of greenhouse gases. Then there’s a very low efficiency of transforming vegetable protein into animal protein.
The excuse that consumption of animals is required for vitamin B12 is invalid because it can be synthesized or produced by bacteria (via fermentation of beans). But those insisting on animals for food can eat insects which can be produced with a much higher conversion efficiency than cattle.
Another reason to limit meat consumption (or tax it like alcohol and tobacco) is the bad (and costly) effect on health.
Man has defined himself as an omnivore while ignoring these properties of a real omnivore:
1. The ability to metabolize large amounts of animal proteins (meat) thanks to the presence
of the enzyme uricase.
The digestion track of great apes doesn’t have the enzyme uricase hence is unfit to process large amounts of proteins. The reason for that, for the great apes, uric acid is a powerful antioxidant. Apart from that, the metabolism of animal protein in a too long digestion track is related to putrefaction which can bring about several diseases.
So there’s no way, the digestion system of a great ape could evolve to that of a real omnivore. What was possible regards lactose-tolerance for life instead of only during the breastfeeding period (for most Caucasians, the Masai etc.) because the digestion system already processes sugars(about 10% solution as present in fruits) well, by default.
Diseases due to uric acid regard arthritis, gout, rheumatism, gallbladder and kidney stones.
2. Able to deal with specific constituents of meat, like iron and fat-soluble vitamins A and D.
Iron from animal sources for a large part is hemo whereas that from vegetable sources is mostly non-hemo. Consumption of the first by a great ape results mostly in resorption (difficult to be refused by the system) whereas the non-hemo form has to be processed into hemo first. That requires a certain condition and then is on demand. Hence from a mostly plant-based diet one cannot easily get an overdose and develop iron-related diseases.
Iron-related diseases are Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, Huntington’s etc.
Great apes cannot deal with large amounts of vitamins A and D, a too large intake causes hypervitaminosis. Vegetable material can contain carotene(pro-vitamin A) which will be processed into the vitamin on demand, so overdose is impossible. Vitamin D is formed due to UV radiation of the skin and that
mechanism also has a “no more than demand” function.
Hypervitaminosis of A has been linked to an impressive list of symptoms like blurred vision, bone swelling, osteoporosis etc. and birth defects in
the case of pregnancy. Hypervitaminosis of D, calcification of soft tissues, nausea, weight loss etc.
As the effect of iron-overload is a fairly recent discovery, an extract:
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4.3. Iron Overload and Diabetic Complications
Increasing evidence indicates that iron overload played a pathologic role in diabetic complications since iron overload is able to damage vascular and heart in non-diabetic subjects(see the review [6]). It has been recognized that diabetic patients have the most compensative mechanisms impaired by hyperglycemia or hyperlipidemia, which make the organs
or tissues more susceptible to oxidative stress [1,2,80]. Therefore, the complications, mainly including microvascular and macrovascular disorders (neuropathy, retinopathy, nephropathy, cardiomyopathy) and vascular dysfunction (hypertension and arteriosclerosis), may be enhanced in the diabetic patients with increased serum and organ iron.
http://www.bentham.org/cmc/samples/cmc16-1/0006C.pdf
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The list is by no means complete though enough to make an estimate of wasted resources and suffering due to a diet that no longer bears a relationship to man’s original habitat but disrupts his biological control mechanisms instead, while destroying his life-support system, the environment.
Anthony Clown; your remarks are racist and igniting
You can’t compell all to eat what you eat!
You can eat pig meat alongwith its blood, urine and shit, who is stopping you?
Just like a dog who is sniffing over the blood of a carcass eating it with all its filthiness, yet lifting its leg when it urinates lest any soil its body
.. and of the Gen Pershing story; I have no knowledge, anyhow, there is no baptism type concept in Islam. If my deeds are good, I will go to heaven even if I am killed with a bullet soaked in Your blood
You talk of ‘animal rights’ first learn how to fulfill human rights… respect and freedom of faith is one of the basic human rights
Nasar, you are a disgusting, barbaric, medieval animal. How dare you talk of human rights, when your ‘religion’ imprisons women because one of your fellow heathens raped them and they dared to complain, without it being witnessed by four other males of your kind (who would have probably have joined in)?
How dare you speak of human rights when Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia imprison Christians because they dared to bring a Bible to your misbegotten land?
How dare you speak of human rights when you censor all mention of Christianity and prohibit the wearing of a Christian religious symbol in Islamic countries?
How dare you speak of human rights when your religion tells you to murder everyone who isn’t a barbarian like yourself and refuses to grovel to your satanic god?
How dare you come to our country and force your women to dress like clowns in a circus?
Worst of all, how dare you come to OUR country and demand that we indulge in your barbarism, cruelty and hypocrisy
No, you hypocritical barbarians, you sit in your homes and offices, neglecting work to read your satanic bible, you grovel on your knees five times every day and then every Wednesday night hundreds of “devout” Saudi Muslims hightail it over to Bahrain, where they eat pork, drink alcohol and fornicate with women all Thursday and Friday, before returning on Saturday to pretend how ‘good’ they are.
You have the human right to do anything and everything you want. You can stone and rape your women. You can grovel as much and as often as you like. You can lie, cheat, steal, rob and murder. You can torture your animals to death. You can eat whatever you like. You can fornicate with camels and do anything that takes your fancy. BUT DO IT IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. YOUR “RELIGION” IS NOT WELCOME IN OURS!
Just as we Christians and our womenfolk have NO human rights in your country, you should have the same rights in ours, – NONE. We don’t want to force you to worship our God, Jehovah. We didn’t ask you to come to our lands and defile it with our presence, but YOU asked us to come to yours and help to develop and build it for you, because your “religion” has made you so dumb and lazy that you would rather grovel on your knees than soil your hands or engage in any manual labor.
Without American and European help you would still be living in tents in the desert and you wouldn’t have been able to get a single Dollar from your oil, because you are too bloody dumb and lazy to get it out of the ground yourselves. Lucky there are enough starving Phillipinos to come and do all your manual labour for you and enough stupid Christians to come and do all your thinking for you, so you have the time to read your “bible” and grovel on your knees.
Hello Anthony,
I suggest you don’t talk about things you really don’t know. When you say that “countries like Saudi Arabia imprison Christians because they dared to bring a Bible to your misbegotten land”, you are not supporting your statement with any facts at all. Let me tell you this, have you been to Saudi Arabia? Have you talked to the Christians living here about their views of Saudi Arabia and its Muslim people? Probably not. Your facts are based purely on media influence and propaganda. Let me tell you this, my close friends and more than 70% of the members in my school are of non-Islamic religion. All the teachers in our school are Christians, including the owner of the school and the principal. They actually like Saudi Arabia to be a “perfect” society for them. There is harmony here, no terrorism at all, and definitely no anti-Islamic protests.
Therefore, I see no point in your argument, because you have no first-hand facts to back up your opinions here. Living in a anti-Islamic country, growing up in an anti-Islamic background, and living in an anti-Islamic environment has made you yourselves anti-Islamic. It is time you open your eyes and come see for yourselves. In other words, become human.
Also, let me tell you this: living a peaceful life in the desert with tents and dates and perfect harmony is much better than living in crime-torn cities such as Las Vegas, New York, San Francisco, and more.
Allah will reward those who love him with unthinkable pleasure, and punish those who deny him with unthinkable pain. He is the merciful, the forgiver, and the all-power. Hope you will soon join the right path.
Inshallah!
This barbaric and inhuman practice of killing animals should have been banned years ago.
Everything possible should be done to make life as unpleasant and difficult for these medieval Muslim animals as is humanly possible. More and more people should breed pigs and run them in places where they try to force their barbaric ‘religion’ on civilized western people.
Butchers should sell mainly pork products and Butchers offering Halal meat should have their licenses revoked. I’m sorry that this will inconvenience the Jewish Community, but I’m sure their ingenuity will soon find a way to deal with this. Restaurants should cook everything with pork fat and pig faeces should be sprayed on all farm land.
Anyone caught selling Halal meat should be prosecuted and receive severe sentences. It’s high time we stopped pussyfooting around and made it very clear to these people that their barbaric ‘religion’ is NOT WELCOME in civilized countries. They should all go “home” to Islam-Land and there, they can kill each other, stone their women to death and do whatever they will to their animals.
It brings to mind the story of Gen. John J. Pershing
Once in U.S. history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so “Black Jack” told his boys to catch the perpetrators and teach them a lesson.
Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs’ blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.
All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.
Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won’t make them flinch.
They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won’t get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.
AND GOOD RIDDANCE
severing the neck is the only effective way of quenching the blood from the carcass
eating un-slaughtered meat is like eating blood which is barberic
so either be a human and slaughter the animals, or be an animal and eat blood with dead meat
do the ECG tests; the animal feel less pain once there is no blood mobement towards the brain
GO HOME to your fellow barbarians. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.
A religion that lacks compassion for animals could be interpreted as a danger to society because where is the limit? In the world’s most extremist religious state, Saudi Arabia, religion requires people to be tortured just as well, or to be whipped, limb amputated, beheaded or hanged.
Best would be to set up a 100% humanitarian state (humanitarian laws) and whoever wants to practice religion has to do so within the humanitarian framework of law – no exceptions made.
That makes issues like tolerance, multiculturalism and whether or not religious symbols can be shown publicly, non-applicable.