While all eyes in the West are currently trained on the ongoing revolution taking place in Egypt, Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is warning that the situation on the sub-continent has turned “grave” as it appears open warfare is about to break out between Pakistan and the United States.
Fueling this crisis, that the SVR warns in their report has the potential to ignite a total Global War, was the apprehension by Pakistan of a 36-year-old American named Raymond Allen Davis (photo), whom the US claims is one of their diplomats, but Pakistani Intelligence Services (ISI) claim Raymond Davis is a spy for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
Davis was captured by Pakistani police after he shot and killed two men in the eastern city of Lahore on January 27th that the US claims were trying to rob him.
Pakistan, however, says that the two men Davis killed were ISI agents sent to follow him after it was discovered he had been making contact with al Qaeda after his cell phone was tracked to the Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan where the Pakistani Taliban and a dozen other militant groups have forged a safe haven and former CIA agent Tim Osman (also known as Osama bin Laden) is believed to be in hiding.
Of the actual gunfight itself we can read as reported by the Time News Service which, in part, says:
“The scene could have been scripted in a Hollywood action thriller: For two hours at the end of last month in Lahore, U.S. diplomat Raymond Davis was closely pursued by two visibly armed men on a motorbike. He noticed them tailing him from a restaurant to an ATM, and through the crowded streets of Pakistan’s second [largest] city. They were close by when, in a crowded intersection, Davis produced his own handgun and fired seven shots.
The diplomat was apparently a crack shot, and all seven bullets found their mark, killing his two pursuers. Davis then called for back-up, and a four-wheel-drive vehicle raced onto the scene, striking a Pakistani bystander who was killed by the impact. But the people in the vehicle, whose identities remain unknown, escaped from the scene having failed to retrieve Davis, who was later arrested nearby.”
The combat skills exhibited by Davis, along with documentation taken from him after his arrest, prove, according to this report, his being a member of the feared American Task Force 373 (TF373) black operations unit currently operating in the Afghan War Theater and Pakistani tribal areas comprised of US Military Special Forces Soldiers, CIA spies and freelance mercenaries.
Further information about Davis discovered by the Times of India includes:
“According to records from the Pentagon, Davis is a former Special Forces soldier who left the army in August 2003 after 10 years of service. A Virginia native, he served with infantry divisions prior to joining the 3rd Special Forces Group in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In 1994, he was part of the U.N. peacekeeping force in Macedonia. His record includes several awards and medals, including for good conduct.
Public records also show Davis runs a company with his wife registered in Las Vegas called Hyperion Protective Services, though it was not immediately clear whether the company has had many contracts with the U.S. government.”
Since Davis’s capture the US has exerted extraordinary pressure upon Pakistan to release him, including the American Ambassador warning President Asif Ali Zardari to release him “or else” and the cancellation of all talks between these two nuclear powered Nations.
Today, according to this SVR report, this most critical of situations became even worse when a Pakistani judge refused to bow to American pressure and ordered a further 14-day detention of Davis, and which sparked an immediate threat from US National Security Advisor Tom Donilon, who told Pakistani envoy Hussain Haqqani that the Obama administration will “kick him out of the US”, close American consulates in Pakistan and cancel President Zardari’s upcoming visit to Washington if their CIA spy wasn’t released immediately.
Fearing that the conflict over Davis may lead to open warfare, the Pakistanis were quick to let the Americans know they would not come out any conflict unscathed with their firing yesterday of their new Hatf-VII nuclear cruise missile (also called Babur after the 16th-century Muslim ruler who founded the Mughal Empire) that Major General Athar Abbas said “…can carry strategic and conventional warheads, has stealth capabilities, is a low-flying, terrain-hugging missile with high manoeuvrability, pinpoint accuracy and radar avoidance features”.
The United States Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) further reported yesterday that Pakistan appears to be building a fourth military nuclear reactor, signaling its determination to produce more plutonium for atomic weapons.
Most ominous in this SVR report, though, is Pakistan’s ISI stating that top-secret CIA documents found in Davis’s possession point to his, and/or TF373, providing to al Qaeda terrorists “nuclear fissile material” and “biological agents” they claim are to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to reestablish the West’s hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse.
Not known to the masses of the American people is that the $20 Trillion they have spent on their longest wars in history has bankrupted their Nation to such an extent that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) called yesterday for replacement of the US Dollar as the World’s reserve currency.
More crucially that the American people are ignoring is the fact that their own government has unleashed against them a 21st Century update to the dreaded US Military “Operation Northwoods” campaign of terror designed to enrage them to accepting war as their main way of life.
Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag operation proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the CIA, or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in US cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. One part of Operation Northwoods was to “develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.”
Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
“The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.”
Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various US military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government’s Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted and the proposals included in the plan were never executed.
James Bamford summarizes Northwoods as follows:
“Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.”
Though Operation Northwoods had the “approval” of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, it did not have the approval of their boss, President John F. Kennedy (1917-1963), but who barely one year after his outright rejection of this monstrous plan to kill thousands of innocent Americans was gunned down as an example to any future US leader what would happen to them if they dared go against the wishes of the Military-Industrial Complex (MIC).
Today, as the US Department of Homeland Security has just issued a grim warning that the threat of terror strike on America is at a higher level than it has been since September 11, 2001, and the WikiLeaks release of secret US government cables reveals that al Qaeda is on the brink of using a nuclear bomb, a new President stands between his people and the CIA warmongers with the only question being will he protect them like Kennedy did?
The answer to that question, sadly, appears to be “no” as new information recently obtained by US journalists show that not only has Obama failed to discipline those CIA officers who have led the United States to near total collapse, he has promoted them in numbers never before seen in history.
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Of course this piece is totaly fabricated BS like virtually everything here.
Operation Northwoods was one of hundred of written proposals done by underlings in the US military. It was thoroughly rejected and in fact it’s author was subsequently fired.
One really has to wonder who finances this website that consistently provides deliberately false propaganda disguised as news items.
The usual suspects are Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia.
I’m prepared to believe what has been said in this piece of investigative journalism. But the article itself betrays an intense bias that puts it all into doubt.
Operation Northwoods has become a Holy Grail of anti-American sentiment. The reality is: It Was Never Executed!
Bacnk in the 60s, and well before, all sorts of scenarious were outlined by low level staff members with more imagination than knowledge. This particular proposal was rejected outright – and in fact the on staff author was fired from his job.
The real point to be learned from Northwoods was that the US was not seriously considering such a plan – as history has shown.
The reflex to immediately blame the CIA for some devious action colours so much alternative news reporting. It’s almost inevitable and actually subtracts credibility from truly significant information pieces.
News is supposed to be an objective synthesis of information, not one-sided rants.
@paull: great, so now i have two paranoids who are going to call my work and tell them i was late because i went snowboarding the other day…
you haven’t contributed anything useful to the topics, but your ‘shillbot’ accusation and the content of your few sentences indicates a ‘big brother’ paranoia.
seriously…what i do for a living is irrelevant, except that your delusion that i must be some government agent provides you with the mental assurance that you know big brother is lurking behind every corner. i could tell you i’m a clown juggler in the circus-it wouldn’t make a difference as far as how your mind is ‘made up’ about me…anyhow…hope you’re having a great day. thanks for the love.
I believe he meant what alphabetical agency do you belong to. I would have to agree with him. You seem like a shillbot. If you are not getting paid for your comments you might as well.
@unimpressed: who am i working for? what kind of question is that?
are you going to call my work and tell them that the reason i was late yesterday was because i went snowboarding?
:P
@danstensland
Who are you working for?
661. Earthquake of Japan (3/14/2011)
The March 11, 2011 earthquake in Japan was created by the Pentagon, I believe.
Artificial earthquake is a matured technique and had been used in my case several times. (see “503. Earthquake in Peru (8/18/07)”, “518. Earthquake after wildfire (11/3/07)”, “552. Setting off an earthquake is a mature technique (6/14/08)” )
This big earthquake damaged several nuclear power stations in Japan. Officials presumed that partial meltdowns had occurred at two crippled reactors and that they were facing serious cooling problems at three more.
I allege it is the continuation of the series “nuclear terror attack” plot started later last year. The purpose is to push up a panic in public to justify the war on Iran. Iran is accused of developing nuclear weapons by the US though Iran denies it.
There were at least three times later last year that the Feds intended to activate a “nuclear terror attack” in US.
1. Later October 2010, days before 11/2 mid-term election. The plot was signaled with “Yemen UPS parcel bombing” case.
2. Christmas holiday 2010. The plot was signaled by Wikileaks case. (Which was planned to control the Internet communication, to wipe out my year long revelation) Military conflict between North and South Korea and two big snow storms in London and New York. The cities were selected because people there mostly anti-war and demand 911 truth.
3. February 26, 2011. The plot was signaled with two unusual snow storms in San Francisco Bay area and New York on 2/25. (see all these plots from posts starting from #651)
A recent case exposed where the “nuclear bomb” or “dirty bomb” material of the coming “terror attack” comes from. That topic told you why US almost have a warfare with its ally – Pakistan.
[quote] CIA Spy Captured Giving Nuclear Bomb To Terrorists
Posted by EU Times on Feb 11th, 2011 // 218 Comments
While all eyes in the West are currently trained on the ongoing revolution taking place in Egypt, Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is warning that the situation on the sub-continent has turned “grave” as it appears open warfare is about to break out between Pakistan and the United States.
Fueling this crisis, that the SVR warns in their report has the potential to ignite a total Global War, was the apprehension by Pakistan of a 36-year-old American named Raymond Allen Davis (photo), whom the US claims is one of their diplomats, but Pakistani Intelligence Services (ISI) claim Raymond Davis is a spy for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
Davis was captured by Pakistani police after he shot and killed two men in the eastern city of Lahore on January 27th that the US claims were trying to rob him.
Pakistan, however, says that the two men Davis killed were ISI agents sent to follow him after it was discovered he had been making contact with al Qaeda after his cell phone was tracked to the Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan where the Pakistani Taliban and a dozen other militant groups have forged a safe haven and former CIA agent Tim Osman (also known as Osama bin Laden) is believed to be in hiding.
Of the actual gunfight itself we can read as reported by the Time News Service which, in part, says:
“The scene could have been scripted in a Hollywood action thriller: For two hours at the end of last month in Lahore, U.S. diplomat Raymond Davis was closely pursued by two visibly armed men on a motorbike. He noticed them tailing him from a restaurant to an ATM, and through the crowded streets of Pakistan’s second [largest] city. They were close by when, in a crowded intersection, Davis produced his own handgun and fired seven shots.
The diplomat was apparently a crack shot, and all seven bullets found their mark, killing his two pursuers. Davis then called for back-up, and a four-wheel-drive vehicle raced onto the scene, striking a Pakistani bystander who was killed by the impact. But the people in the vehicle, whose identities remain unknown, escaped from the scene having failed to retrieve Davis, who was later arrested nearby.”
The combat skills exhibited by Davis, along with documentation taken from him after his arrest, prove, according to this report, his being a member of the feared American Task Force 373 (TF373) black operations unit currently operating in the Afghan War Theater and Pakistani tribal areas comprised of US Military Special Forces Soldiers, CIA spies and freelance mercenaries.
Further information about Davis discovered by the Times of India includes:
…………….
http://www.eutimes.net/2011/02/cia-spy-captured-giving-nuclear-bomb-to-terrorists/
“[/quote]
This whole drama was staged by ISI to re-negotiate their deals with CIA. You may have read the report that Faizan and Faheem are tasked by IB to keep an eye on Raymond Davis. They followed him that day in Lahore before he pulled the trigger. Since then ISI managed the whole event including leaks to media and statements by different public officials including SMQ. They knew all along how will they draw the curtain once their demands are met.
and how can u be so sure he was alone? what do u think second car was doing there? if the car came to rescue david why didnt they do so? infact they came to rescue the “friend” who was with ray davis…..
because we know the driver and another passenger with him who was in ray davis car before (according to eye witnesses) has been escaped and there is no way america is going to give them to pakistan.. heck they killed passerby to take that passenger out of there. wat do u say about that? who was that passenger and why was he so important that consulate car even killed a passerby to take him out of there? u should acknowledge that ray davis with his “friend” was involved in suspicious activities…..
@zain: you indicate that I “should acknowledge that ray davis with his friend was involved in suspicious activities….”
zain, you may have missed reading some things…if you read once again, the long reply i already sent you, you will see two indications where i question what he may have been doing. it was a lot of material to type, so i can’t repeat it again for you. i find it a bit strange that you demand an answer from me that i have already given, yet you ignore questions that i ask.
please understand that i am not writing to try and insult people. when i was in pakistan, i met many wonderful people in many towns and tribal areas, and would hope to visit again. my concern is that the anger in pakistan has become so volatile, like an explosion, and i am trying to understand what is truly behind this anger, and trying to have you think about the situation with honest questions, instead of merely wanting ray davis killed because he is american and works for the CIA.
there are so many questions in my mind about why people are behaving with so much hate over a story that involves two armed robbers. i don’t believe that pakistanis would normally support robbers like this. in america, if a pakistani came to visit and was being robbed, and the pakistani killed the armed robbers, americans would not support the thief and call for the death of the pakistani. americans would say the thief got what he deserved. americans would even be embarrassed that a foreigner experienced an attempted robbery.
even though the pakistani police state that these men were part of a robbery gang, and state that they were both armed with loaded weapons, the entire country of pakistan seems to want to make those men innocent. why?
18 relatives of the dead men have accepted a payment in accordance with an islamic accepted part of the law in pakistan. the family has offered forgiveness, but the rest of the country, who do not even know these men, do not. recently, a pakistani governor was killed by his own bodyguard, because he spoke against a blasphemy law that is in place to have asia bibi executed. his bodyguard and assassin has been deemed a ‘hero’ in pakistan.
so, if one politician speaks out against an islamic law and is killed and that is ok, why does the entire country speak out against application of an islamic law in the davis case and that is ok too? is it ok to behave differently if it involves an american?
why is there more public anger about this case with ray davis killing two armed robbers, than there is in pakistan for the March 9 funeral bombing???
36 mourners at a funeral for hakim khan, close to peshawar, were killed by a taliban suicide bomber.
how is it possible, that the public vents an incredible amount of anger against a CIA contractor who kills two known robbers, yet there is no outrage against the group who killed 36 people at a funeral??? the taliban claim responsibility, and nobody speaks against this.
this is how i feel, zain: i feel that pakistanis only want to see one story, and the story is this: a cia contractor shot two innocent men to death in the street so he should be killed. zain, if this were the true story, then i would agree with pakistanis. this is not the true story though-it is the story that people want to believe, because they are angry at america, and want ray davis to be an example for all their anger.
i honestly believe that if people are that angry to want ray davis killed for shooting two armed robbers, then the people should be equally or more angry at the taliban for ordering the bombing of a funeral. pakistanis should be equally or more angry that a pakistani politician was killed in cold blood by his own bodyguard. they should be angry that this bodyguard, who did not kill two armed robbers but killed an unarmed politician, is given a hero’s welcome in public. ok, i know that not all people consider him a hero, but you know it is truth that many believe him to be. the only christian cabinet minister in pakistan was killed just a few weeks ago. where is the outcry? do you believe that two armed robbers on motorcycles are more innocent than a christian cabinet minister in pakistan? is there an outcry over his death?
questions, questions, questions. please understand that i love the people of pakistan, and i wish peace for them. pakistan is a great country and has potential to become even greater, but i just do not believe that all of this anger and hatred is helpful.
we want peace and peace never come without justice, hence first we want justice and releasing Raymond Davis is injustice
The CIA-BLACK OPS murderer, Raymond Davis, has been released by the the coward Pakistani authorities and has been probably flown to the Bagram Base in Afghanistan.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/03/16/veterans-today-exclusve-raymond-davis-release-the-inside-story/
And maybe he discovered his cover is blown ? thats why he killed the ISI officials… either way spy gadget was recovered from his car…. so dont u think he should be trailed in Pakistan for espionage????
@danstensland: but sir u are not touching the real question. what was he doing in pakistan and why is america is soo interested in him that they are willing to pay blood money in exchange of him…. what will he reveal which is so important to USA that they doesnt want pakistan to know? and i even doubt that US state deptt gonna do something…. and if he was a spy then dont u think it was little something more than an accident? dont u think he should be trailed in pakistan for espionage????
@zain: i have addressed that question before, and also above. Whether or not he was spying, there are still only a few logical possibilities: 1. He thought he was about to be robbed or shot by motorcyclists with guns who had been following him. 2. The motorcyclists were ISI on a mission to do something to Davis, but how would Davis know they are ISI? Also, Davis was not in disguise-he was obviously American so when I speak of blowing cover, I mean for him to not create a dramatic incident that will be investigated and allow the government to learn that he was spying. Obvious to all that he is American, but not obvious that he is a spy unless an incident causes him to be brought in. Soooooooo…..why would he risk blowing his cover by creating an incident that ends up with him being brought in for questioning? The idea that he was a black ops killer is silly…no black ops killer would venture into heavy pakistani traffic, with no disguise, and try to kill two very mobile motorcyclists….that is about the worst way to do a job! it makes no sense, but it makes people happy who want to believe that he simply killed for no reason. If Davis was simply a crazy murderer, then why did he choose those two motorcyclists? Seems like it would be easier to select to unarmed victims…for that matter, why did he only kill those two? The idea that he is simply a murderer of two innocent people is almost impossible to defend. At best, one can only say that he should not have killed the second person, and let him get away…
Imagine, however, that you are being followed by two armed motorcyclists in a foreign country…you are already alone, you look different than everyone, you are aware they have guns, are aware that maybe they have followed you far and know where you are staying…then one raises a gun towards you. do you smile and wave? do you shoot at one, and hope that they don’t do anything, like shoot back, or maybe follow you home, or call for more to come and kill you later??? What could you possibly expect?
America is interested in him because he is contracted to provide security work for the CIA. Was he spying on the ISI to learn about Taliban connections? Who knows. Still, I believe he thought his life was in danger, and that was the only way he could do something terrible, and risk his own life, in shooting those two. Every nation has diplomats in other countries, and often those diplomats are working under cover as spies. Especially between the US and Russia, this happens all the time. It is normal. When you ask if he should be tried for espionage, usually what happens is the diplomat is expelled from the country. The news is published, the country of the spy is embarrassed, and that is all. If the countries have very bad relations, maybe the country will put the spy in jail, and then try to exchange him for other spies of it’s own in the other country. It is not a simple formula, and one must factor in the available evidence, and government relations. For all we know, Davis may have information about the ISI that the Pakistani government does not want the Pakistanis to know…there are so many questions…The government already says that he is contracted for temporary CIA work, but evidence of his spying is limited…basically a satellite phone, which is fine, a GPS device, which is fine-i just used one when I was driving in Nicaragua, because I didn’t know where I was going…and a camera with photographs of government buildings…ok, enough to raise suspicion, but can you put someone in jail simply because they have a satellite phone and pictures???
it’s not that America is so interested in him, because America would generally do whatever it can get it’s government workers out. The one i am more concerned with is the driver who ran over the pedestrian.
The real question is this: Why do the people of Pakistan only care about Ray Davis, who shot two men who were armed and may have been a true threat to his life…but they don’t protest about the driver who ran over the 100% completely innocent Pakistani in the street????
If it was simply about fairness and justice, people would be more angry with the driver who ran over the person and then left the country, not Ray Davis.
@zain: i do not think justice has been served yet; the only innocent person was the bystander who was killed when he was run over by the other driver-who fled the country. here in the US, that type of accident, even if it is an accident, is called vehicular manslaughter, and can end up with jail time. since the driver fled, the crime would also include charges of ‘hit and run’ which would produce more jail time…
the families of the slain men have been paid blood money, and have offered forgiveness in exchange. i cannot, however, say that those men on the motorcycles were innocent, with the information we have. why were they armed with loaded guns? why did the police find 5 stolen cellphones on them, which were reported stolen and then recovered at the police station by their owners? the police state that the dead men were part of a street robbery gang. so……..either it is true that they were robbers attempting to rob davis, or they were ISI, with stolen cellphones, following davis…either way, how would Davis know? the fact that davis is CIA has no bearing on this, unless the men were ISI which would be the reason they were following him…still, how would he know the intentions of armed men on motorcycles? i truly doubt that Davis would risk giving up his CIA cover in broad daylight on a pakistani street, in a car(horrible escape vehicle in busy traffic, unlike motorcycles..) to simply kill two men for no reason. He had to believe that his life was in danger. It is also possible that the reason the second man was shot in the back was because davis took advantage of hitting the brakes while the motorcycle zoomed past, and that’s when he took the advantage to hit the second target…Davis and the incident is already under investigation by the US State Department now. This may show the truth, it may not…
many theories, speculations, but i don’t believe at all that those two armed men with stolen phones were innocent men out on a friendly motorcycle ride. we may never know…
still, i think justice for the one person who was not involved is most important.
@danstenisland: so now raymond is released… how do u feel about that???? u think justice is served? world is more happy place now? we are just pawns of the 1% rich people of the world….!
@zain: i think it is possible, although 5 stolen cellphones were found with the motorcyclists. it is possible that instead of being common thieves, they were ISI, and stole the cell phones in order to make phone calls that would not be traced back to themselves…
@danstensland: dont u think one plausible explanation could be that Raymond Davis(or whatever his actual name was) was infact CIA spy and the two killed were ISI agents keeping an eye on him… and the third one was innocent of course..
@Giovanni:”I only hear how they keep shooting rockets into isreal” Thats ur national media “filtering” the news and telling u one side of the story….. such an indifference is a pity……
Author of this article tells us about “SVR report”
Where did he get it??? ;-)
Looks like he learn new scary foreign word and use it as bulletproof argument of his ideas.
Forgive that I interfere… But at us in Russia hearings for a long time already walk… That CIA plans to 2012 to organize act of terrorism with application of the nuclear weapon, by means of under control “Al-Kaeda”… And to destroy completely one or two American cities (speak about Los-Angeles is more often)… The nuclear weapon ostensibly should be stolen from military warehouses in Russia …
It is all to mobilize and rally the American nation…
If it is truth … that categorically it is impossible to admit realization of these plans …
Zeeshan…
what are the jews doing to the Palestinians??? I only hear how they keep shooting rockets into isreal
You hear this because the media is in their control.Whenever they want they enetr the Palestenians houses, demolish them arrest the youngsters or even bomb their populated areas with the jets.
They have stopped the muslims below 40 years to offer prayers in the third holiest mosque in Baitul muqaddas(Jerusalem).They are making tunnels underneath this mosque so as it may be demolished automatically after some time, and it will lead them to build their hackle at the spot of mosque.
Whatelse should I tell you, they are doing all what they can do to crush muslims.But their is a hadith of the Final Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) which has the translation, that before the day of judgement the time will come when jews will be hiding behind stones and tress and those trees and stones will ask the muslims about the jews that here there is a jew behind me, come and kill him.I am waiting for that day and the signs are showing that day is not too far.
most of the people in the world know very well, what kind of drama of 9/11 was, Which is to be performed by America and used the names like usama and others as his cards to play war games against Afghanistan and then Iraq and now so on…how simple we people are, when we talked about the aid from America to fight against so these called terrorists who are also the characters staged by America, specially in Pakistan
Ali you must be kidding…Pakistani terrorists are staged by America???
Do you know where most Pakistani terrorists come from?
Have you been to the remote provinces, like NWFP, and the border with Afghanistan???
These are full of villages that have remained unchanged for hundreds of years. Everybody in the village knows who lives there. You honestly believe that Americans can just go to the village and convince the people to commit terrorist acts???
Do you believe that you could go into the NWFP, get to know some people in a village, and convince them to commit some terrorist acts??? Think about it.
No, you could not. Those areas have almost no government-they govern from within only. The government of Pakistan does not even have control in those places, and certainly the government of America does not have the ability to go into those areas and simply convince people to commit terrorism. Ridiculous.
@Irtza Shahan
You claim that the US gives money to the puppet rulers and taliban, you say “he gives money to Taliban for providing security.”
So you say that we are paying puppets to fight the taliban, we are paying the taliban to give us security, at the same time we are fighting the taliban for years, in afghanistan and pakistan.
so you believe that after we have killed thousands of taliban, and we are still at war against them, we pay them, and the taliban enjoy providing excellent security for money, which gives us the opportunity to kill even more taliban, even after we have killed so many in war???
are you saying that the taliban leadership provides US security and fights the US at the same time? what kind of leadership does that??!!!! One brother provides security while the attacker kills his brother??!
call me stupid all you want irtza shahan, maybe you would find it intelligent, if somebody offered to pay you $100 to wash their car, and at the same time you are punching each other in the face, and he is trying to destroy his car and you are trying to stop him from destroying the car, and then you try and destroy the car yourself.
that, irtza, is the same situation as what you are describing to me, and you are calling me stupid. good luck with that.
I think that is the end of game for America. Its time for for Pakistani nation to stay united and kick nato out of Afganistan and Pakistan.
Pakistan is having no history of suicide bombing before 09/11. It is just because of Musharraf who laid down infront of americans and allowed them to operate through Pakistan.These are the consequences of that innocent muslim blood shed which is going on since 09/11 in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
No muslim can even think of killing an innocent civilian without any reason but you see the talibans in Pakistan are even bombing in schools and mosques, this is just Israeli, American and Indian trica which is operating in the form of talibans in Pakistan.I totally agree with Zeeshan that we have many options and Pakistan Army, ISI, Pak Govt. and nation should use these options now.
I believe even if Pakistan steps back from helping america in Afghanistan , americans will be burried in Afghanistan just like Russia bcz afghani talibaans are fighting with the true spirit of jihaad so they can’t be defeated.
Its time to say Good Bye to America…
@mohsin
You say “afghani talibaans are fighting with the true spirit of jihaad so they can’t be defeated.”
You also say “talibans in Pakistan are even bombing in schools and mosques,”
Well, Mohsin, since the taliban are bombing in schools and mosques in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and you say that the Afghani Taliban are fighting with the “true spirit of jihad,” then what you are saying is that the true spirit of jihad is bombing schools and mosques.
Are you proud that the Taliban are bombing schools and mosques?
What do I mean by saying that afhani talibaans are fighting with the spirit of Jihad is that they are fighting against nato forces which hav occupied a muslim country by force that is why they are on the right way.While on the other hand Pakistan talibans have no links with the afghani ones and it has been dictated by afghani talibans several times.
For your kind informations, afghani talibans are not bombing schools and mosques.These are only Pakistan talibans which are doing this with the support of America, India etc.
There are many proves of indian intervention and links with Paksitani talibans to destabilize Pakistan.Also there are proves that america is backing Pakistani talibans and these proves were shown by former president musharraf to his U.S counterpart.The latest example is raymond davis(a cia spy)!!!
Mohsin you are incorrect again. The taliban, who you say are fighting in the true spirit of jihad, closed ALL girls’ schools in Afghanistan. Now that the taliban does not have control of Afghanistan, the taliban bombs and burns schools.
The Afghan Ministry of Education statistics show that between March and October of 2010, 20 schools were bombed or burned. 126 students and teachers were killed in this same period. The Taliban also send threatening letters at night to scare women who are working or studying.
In Helmand province, the deputy minister of education, Mamoud Muhammed Wali indicated that the Taliban have forced the closing of 75 schools. He also indicated that the taliban had burned down 8 schools there. Sometimes, they do not bomb the schools, but instead kill the teacher, and then threaten the school. Lashkar Gah, which is not under taliban control, is where 3000 students fled to last year to escape taliban intimidation, and to receive a good education.
i know you would like to think that the taliban are fighting a true jihad, but they are not.
In Pakistan, the taliban has destroyed over 150 schools in 2009, after the taliban issued an edict banning private schools by January 15.
down with israeel
please enlightened all of us that ****************What part of Quran mention this word “Americans” in it and, that “Americans” are enemies of Muslims ?!
No part mentions Americans as enemies but surely the non believers and jews are our enemies.You can see the things which they are doing around the globe against muslims.No other nation is being slaughtered like the muslims are(see Iraq, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Palestine, Pakistan etc.)
This is all because of the involvement of americans in this blood shedding that is making muslims annoyed of it(America). Obviously if your nation is being killed by intruders , you have the right to hate the intruders.
Islam means peace , islam wants peace on the globe.You can read about the earlier muslim rulers when they conquered roman empire and palestine , what their behaviour was with jews and christians?
Also look at this thing that when christians captured some of the muslim lands what did they do with muslims?(Humanity was beheaded at those moments).
Americans are being ruled by zionists which are misleading the american public and using america as the launching station for war against muslims, so obviously muslims will america as well along with zinoists.
wrong mohsin.
in africa, the sudan, hundreds of thousands have been killed. most of these were killed by muslim janjaweed raiders, paid by khartoum. your idea of a world that is full of non-muslims who are only blood thirsty killers, and the other group is peaceful muslims only, is very wrong.
in kosovo, nato forces were the ones who stopped slobodan milosevic from completely destroying muslims.
If you look at the world, see and tell me the name of a single country or area where the christians, jews, hindus or any other religion’s followers are being slaughtered and then look at the world again where the other nations are slaughtering muslims.
You should think about it wisely, now that Americans have killed Osama(their so called enemy) what they are doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
In Pakistan they are bombing on the nomal civilians , school going children and house wives to show their power of drone technology, what the hell is that? In Iraq, initially they threatened the world Saddam is a big terrorist and Iraq is making weapons of mass destruction, now they are telling we have not found any weapons of mass destruction. why they do not leave us as we are? Even if we are terrorists in our own areas , what’s wrong with america and nato which are hundereds and thousand kilometers away from our areas.
If you see the world with open eyes and hearts , you will realize, its a uni polar world dominating americans and europeans and the time is not far when muslims will understand the game and become united.That will be the start of downfall of all the current powers and I am waiting for that day…
If USA is not enemy what are happening in northern areas of Pakistan since last few years, are you closed your eyes? how many terrorists they killed through drone ? only 13, as per reports of foreign reports and thousands innocent had they killed viz:childern, womens, oldmens and mens, are you justify the fact ?don’t fear from them,pl.contact with God with purify heart,and tell truth .
@amjad
Where are you receiving your figures that ‘thousands innocent’ are being killed by US predator strikes in tribal areas?
I do not disagree at all that innocent people are being killed. this is extremely tragic, and sad, but I do have a difficult time believing that thousands are being killed. There are many statistics on terrorist attacks by extremist groups in Pakistan numbering in the thousands, but nobody speaks of these here. I hope that this does not mean that the posters are not concerned by miscreant attacks in Pakistan. Can you please explain where your numbers can be found? When I was in Pakistan, the villages seemed so tiny, and for thousands to be killed, it would require that many, many villages would simply have to be completely destroyed.
once again, it is terrible that innocent die, no matter how big or small the number. however, do you not agree that it is true that the extremists/miscreants in Pakistan have been gaining in power? Less than two years ago, they were within striking distance of Margala hills, just above Islamabad!!!! That is unimaginable to me, that extremist forces could move with power so close to Pakistan’s capital city, and Pakistanis do not believe there is a problem? I believe that these people need to be fought now, and if you do not fight them now, you will have to fight them when they become even stronger in the future. I wish for peace for Pakistan.
Are you earning your bred and butter with writing these lines here? Who is paying you for sitting there all the time and writing untired and unemotionally? You are simply repeating same fake arguments again and again. If you have been writing like others who seem to be personally involved you would have brought more/new arguments. You must not overlook the awakening in the muslim world. If muslims are as lucky as you are they will get leaders like west have. It is your luck that they have a lot of dictators, supported by west. if they have leaders like ones in India and Occupied Palestine American would never ever have courage to cross the big pool. As this, just wait for the change and they are waiting too. Injustice, as in Kashmir, Palestine (with the help of not only US-Vetos!)and elsewhere can not prevail for long. As it is against the nature. I remember US Prasidents saying ,,we believe that so and so is happening, we must react”. Is it correct to react militarily only if you believe? Has conviction no place in your society? Muslims do not believe in that sense but they know what has been happening since very very long. And now they are reacting; still not militarily. Pray, for your sake, that they should be let reach their goals through relatively peaceful disterbances. you are wellcome only if you believe in peace. If you do so do not defend murderers. Peace for all who hate injustice!
@Momin
I wish I were earning bread and butter with these lines, lol!!! So, Momin, you accuse me of repeating the same fake arguments; what is your own real argument then? You have not provided any information to actually debate my arguments. I could go on and post just like you and say “everybody is telling lies…” but I don’t, I write many arguments to give people a chance to read, and give intelligent debate. Instead, people like yourself respond, with no information, and simply say that my argument is fake. Where is your information to counter my “fake” argument????
You say that I must not ‘overlook the awakening in the muslim world…’ I don’t overlook it, if it is current events you are speaking of. Why do you think I would be overlooking it??! I am very happy for those parts of the muslim world who have been able to stand up against years of terrible leaders, and see change happen before their eyes. I know that it will not be easy, and hope for the best for all. You forget that America is a country born of rebellion, and seeking freedom from tyranny. It has been over 200 years of a journey for this country. Why do you ask if I believe that it is correct to react only militarily? Where would you decide that I believe this? You have confused me, because you complain about my arguments, yet offer no points yourself. Instead, you make strange accusations of me that are incorrect…Why do you ask if we have no conviction in our country? Should I ask why it is that Muslims have so much conviction about Palestinian injustice, but turn the other way to injustice in south africa. It is terrible that a few thousand have died in Palestine. My own mother has been there to help people with hospital work. In Sudan, though over 200,000 have been killed. The League of Arab nations spoke out against Bashir, and his use of the Muslim janjaweed raiders to kill men women and children, but where is the outcry in the Arab world? Why do Arab nations only speak of Palestine??? There are SO MANY injustices in the world so why are the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Africa not as important as deaths in Palestine?You ask why ‘we have no conviction,’ how about you???
A friend in need is friend indeed.
Did they as superpower ever come forward to resolve Kashmir issue? No
Did the US help us in 1965 Pak-India war? No.
Did they do anything in 1971 war? No.
Did Pakistan help them in 1979 to destroy their only rival in the world, the USSR? Yes
Did Pakistan help them after 9/11 to wage war against terrorism? Yes
Did they help in 2005 when a major earthquake hit Pakistan? Yes.
Did they help when the most horrible flood in the history of Pakistan occurred? Yes.
In a nutshell, they helped us on some occasions but also they left us in the lurch when we MOST NEEDED them. Now it’s our own mistake to take them as a friend and seek a friendship with them and be deceived when we MOST NEED them.
Conclusion: If a man deceives me once, shame on him; if he deceives me twice, shame on me. Italian Proverb
Let us put the blame where it should be….No one is to blame but our selves if the US is helping us of course it should be only if it benefits the United States itself…Why should they help us they dont owe us anything…let it be clear as a daylight as long as there will be traitors among us there will be nations who will ride all over us and no doubt they will have all the right to do so..Since childhood I have heard American agenda..Jewish agenda.. I say the hell with that what is our own agenda or do we even have one….I feel like we cry out for pity all the time..US is doing this …Jews are doing that..of course they are and will because we dont stand up for our own selves because we dont want to not because we dont know how to
With all the discussion above i have just got that there is a misconception between the nations. both the govt’s of USA and Pakistan are playing. we have serious concerns over america because:
1: During 1948, Kashmir war between Pak and India… America was not their to play its role to settle the dispute.
2: American interest in the Pak region is only to counter the Chinese progress.
3: American presence is not acceptable in AFGHAN region because their people don’t like them to be there.
4: American interest in Pak coastal line is to get the control of heavy marine traffic on ports of gawadar and karachi.
5: America never ever declared Pak to be part of NATO when it declares it the front line coalition partner.
6: America is conducting discrimination between Pakistan and India.
7: America never gave us the military equipment which we needed, infact we are put on sanctions.
8: major contribution in american economy comes from its arms industries. and america needs the conflicts to happen.
9: Just to tell you the example for my previous observation, THE KARGIL WAR(Battle for Tiger Hill) it was a plot of american CIA. in late 1980’s american CIA provided Pakistani counter part ISI with the Kargil war plan. Pakistan didn’t acted upon till 1999.
When Pakistani Forces led into the Kargil, Indian forces were shocked. They tried there level best to get the peak back, but were not able to despite putting huge forces there. Even InAF tried to hit the stronghold but couldn’t. America then came in, not only they provided the satellite imagery to the indian
forces but they also provided them the precision guided artillery rounds which were fired from indian boofaust long range guns which hit the Pakistani positions.
10: Last to say, why the heck did american forces shelled at our Pakistani military post on western border with Afghanistan??
11: American CIA led drone attacks kill more civilians than terrorists. For killing one terrorist america kills 38 innocent civilians.
and lastly, we are as humans as Americans are. If raymond davis has killed the innocent two youths, and there are witnesses then he is to be trialled. Mr Davis has no immunity to kill any human of his choice. and if so, there is no difference between him and the
western terrorist who execute innocent without a reason. And we know how to treat terrorists !
652. Another plot of nuclear attack (11/11/2010)
I allege Feds planned a nuclear attack on US in later October. If you remember, there was an attempt of similar attack on August 30, 2007 when a B-52 carried 6 loaded nuclear missile flied over US continent.
On August 28, 2007, media reported that Bush accepted the resignation of Attorney General Gonzales. His top adviser – Karl Rove also left his post on August 30. The news told us that the rat always is the first to learn the ship would sink. And this time, we got:
Quote, “EXODUS OF JEWISH ADVISORS FROM OBAMA WHITE HOUSE:
by arminius33 ? Mon Oct 11, 2010
What makes this latest development all the more ominous is that Emmanuel is not the only VIP within organized Zionist interests getting our of Dodge. Shortly after Emmanuel’s announcement, the political world was rocked with the news literally within days of each others that Emmanuel’s colleagues, namely David Axelrod (Obama’s Chief Political Advisor) and Larry Summers (Chief Economic Advisor) announced they were leaving as well.
http://www.itszone.co.uk/discuss/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=114132
Emmanuel left for no convincible reason. He just cut off the relationship to a criminal nuclear attack like what Karl Rove and Gonzales had done.
Another man had predicted this terror attack.
Quote, “Alex Jones Predicts Staged Terror Attack in October-November 2010
We have Obama and Clinton advisers saying, “What Obama needs is a giant terror attack to win the mid term elections and to get a second term in 2012′.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHggwnUOHjA&feature=player_embedded#!
It means the Obama administration approved the plot for the interest of their party. The plot went soured when they failed to frame me into a drug case.
On 11/2 I wrote “651. Terror case around 10/27 (11/2/2010)”. Next day afternoon something strange happened while I logged into E-Bay’s forum. I found I could post everything except #651. Then I was blocked to post in the internet. Next day (11/4) the problem continued. I went to library. There in Chinese newspaper “World Journal” there was an article about “Asian Carp”. It said the authority changed their policy – they will kill and eat the Asian Carp instead of intercept them. It was obviously an intimidation. #651 revealed their plot. Feds are so angry that they decide to kill and eat me. How to kill and eat? I don’t know. But it proves I am very correct on their mafia style communication. see “642. Next step, a Chinese spy ring? (8/2/2010) “.
I am sorry for my poor english.
And I am very very sorry for saying bullshit words. And I want to make it clear that it’s not for public it’s for USA or Britain Administrators who are involved in these policies.
I know USA people are nice they are not racist, they very friendly. While Britain english people are arrogant.
I have friends from USA and they are quite agree with these things that told you friends here.
Anyway I am so sorry I loosed my tempo and I used wrong words, of course my words will hurt you. And I am sorry and telling you that it’s not for you. Because all 5 finger in one hand are not equal.
Same with our country’ people few are puppets few are not.
Same with your country few are our enemy few are not like you. ;)
I am sure you will loose tempo same like me, if something goes wrong with your country and your innocent people.
Once again I am really sorry.
Sunny, don’t worry be Happy
TRUE PATHAN ZINDABAD. I agreed with True Pathan.
Anyway we just need to kick off our corrupt politicians and generals who are USA’ Puppets.
=> We have everything resources, men power everything that we need to boost our economy. I guarantee you that once we will get rid of our corrupt people. Every city of Pakistan will be more developed then New York City. You Americans have nothing. We have everything.
=> What do you think that you Americans are giving us aid? No you are wrong. You are spending 90$/pak-soldier/day while on the other side you are spending 300$/militant/day to fighting with Pak-Army. The militant guy who doesn’t have earning doesn’t have money to buy drug he has a American Short Gun that cost around 2000$. You are spending these money to make your policy successful and your policy is (keep them PAk-Army fighting with Militants if soldier died Pakistan will be weak if militant died Pakistan will be weak). You are doing all this to win fucking war and you are trying to denuclearize Pakistan. You send food and money to flood affected people just to get favour of Pakistani public as your forces can get in to Pakistan. How about your Drone attacks on innocent people in NWFP where total 700 and something causalities took place because of drone attacks, while only 9 militants died. What the fuck? You are claiming that you sent food and aid and shit. You don’t remember these numbers ?? And how about MQM? MQM is also working on your Policies what the fuck your ambassadors and Britain dogs are visiting 90 to meet with MQM dogs(90 is MQM headquarters)? Why?? Why don’t they visit President Office? Why don’t they visit PM Office? Because if they need to pressurise gov of Pak they ask them to create problems in Karachi City. Everyone knows that MQM is terrorist shit. Why Why Americans and Britain ass-holes they are protecting them? While Canadian Gov: declared them as an International Terrorist Organisation or Shit. Why Americans are keeping take care of these Dogs?
=> USA, India and Israel they want denuclearized Pakistan because they are terrorist they want to expand their terrorism to more specially for muslim countries and Pakistan is the only one who can block it. Indian terrorism in Kashmir, Israel Terrorism in Palestine. While American terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is their old policies to attack on muslims nations and that’s true. Why British destroyed all muslim’ kingdoms? Go Find information about it. When they destroyed Khilafat in Turkey their General says “now Turkey never can get up, because we took out it’s soul. And that is Khilafat”. You claim that you are the one and only nation who cares about Human Rights. How about Iraqi public’ rights? How about Palestine? How about Afghani? How about Kashmir? You Americans don’t remember what you did with Dr. Afia while she was just neutral civilian? And you are asking Pakistan to release your fucking ass-hole mother fucker CIA spy who killed 2 Pakistanis and Your ambassador ruined one more guy who was going back to home from his work?
=> Alqaeda, Osama Bin Laden was CIA agent, and I still believe that he is working for CIA. You made them able to fight with Russia. And also our fucking general zia was one of americans’ puppet. And he made deal with USA. He created MQM. Because Russia was interested to invest in Pakistan in trade and technology. And It was good in favour PAk and Russia. And then Russia could control central Asia. And USA did not like this, because they wanted to control central Asia. Because Asia has lot of natural resources.
=> Anyway remember this that you can’t denuclearize Pakistan. USA will loose very soon. And we (our public), our judiciary and our media is working on replacing corrupt people with true Pakistanis. Once we will accomplish this. We are gonna king of world.
=> Why USA has problem while other countries who are working on Nuclear Reaction for their Safety? If Iran is working USA has problem. If Korea is working on it USA has problem. Now they have problem with Pak-China defence relations. A month or two months ago I read a news that USA wonders about China, that their military capabilities are being increasing very fast. This news came up just after when China launched new aircraft carrier ship. Why USA has problem? USA wants to be like a crazy dog who runs in streets and barking and biting peoples.
=> USA is dreaming to take over the world like Birtish. And now it’s impossible.
One thing I can clearly understand . You people waste a lot of time wasting on topics which you don’t have control . You people boast a lot but take all help during your calamities & your leaders loot you & then you blame the donor . You blame all your woes on others but never do any good governance & kill your own people whether shias or Hindus or Mohajirs or Sindhis . True Muslims dont boast , dont swear at others , don’t kill innocent people whether Muslims or Non Muslims . True Muslims Lead by example of Quran & Sunnah & become natural leaders for human kind. Even burning flags , burning effigies & violent slogans was not done by Prophet or sahabais 1400 years back . They sang beautiful nasheeds when prophet reached Medina . Pl understand. You cannot be a Muslim just by name & some violent spirit
@deegas Please don’t poke your nose in our affairs, more than one hundred thousand innocent Muslims you have murdered in Kashmir and Gujarat alone during the past 30 years. Despite your claim of shit progress, your consumer price index is 37% higher than Pakistan. Pakistan is amongst the very few blessed countries in the world, where cooking gas distributes in every house through pipes with fraction of cost. One thing you should remember, your non vegetarian Muslim population has very high sperm count as compared to very low sperm count of vegetarian Hindus, so just wait for 20 years more, you must know what do I mean.
LOL….danstensland is a bot.
@dave
ha,yes, totally. i am a bot. i just can’t think of any good robot jokes at the moment, too bad…
danstensland this is my first post here and I have browsed thrugh back and forth correspondance and considering you as a common citizen I sympathesize with your posiion on matters relating Pakistan and US.
Frankly, Ray Davis affair in Pakitan is used as a diversion and the media is totally consumed with the story. Read the newspapers and watch the Pakistani TV channels and you will see what I am talking about. Very little attention is being paid to other significant world events.
America is deeply involved in Pakistan and besides Ray Davis there are hundreds of other US folks in Pakitan representing different public and private sector establishements. From my perspective Ray Davis was in Pakistan with complete knowledge of the Pakistan Administration.
The insecurity in Pakistan is well known. When Pakistanis gather in social settings everyone relates with each other and share stories as to how, either they thenselves, or someone they know have been robbed at gun point at a traffic light or in their own homes. Ray Davis encountered such a situation and took action to defend himself.
Pakistan should have the US compensate to the victims family with blood money of 5-10 million US dollars, close the matter and move on. Ray will be brought home to US within a year anyways whether Pakistan likes it or not.
lmao… what a load of bullshit…
I swear upon God we do not need even a dime from USA we have trillion of dollar of resources, we have world’s largest canal system in Punjab and Sind, we have a food basket for whole world if we could use the surface runoff of only Baluchistan province, we can generate thousands of megawatt electricity by making series of small dams on NWFP rivers, we do not even need the expertise from the west, we have best engineers, doctors, IT expertise working in Pakistan as well as all over the world. Just see our children performance in A and O levels exams they are making world records, we have a family system, we respect our elders they live with us, we do not through away them in retired house, we have social values , our children know the name of their fathers, we do not use women as sex symbol or sex slave as used in the west, we give them respect as sisters, daughters, mothers and wifes. We do not kidnap 10 girls kept them in captivity for 16 years and make them pregnant as you do with innocent girls like hundreds of Jaycee Dugard like girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard) We have 60% of young generation. We have a best friend in our north who never let us down when ever we ask help from him. We survived at the time of worst earth quake and super floods. If triangle of evils Israel, India and uncle Sam let us alone we will become world power and even guide the world in peaceful and joyful means. We do not need USA, he needs us, without our help they will be chopped like a mince in Afghanistan.
A last request please Americans don’t destroy your self for the sake of jews they robbed your banks in trillions
of dollars just see their history they crucified your Christ, when muslems were strong they were their friends and when Christians became strong they became their friends and from inside they are slowing eating you day by day just like termites make wooden pillars hollow.
good post pathan, liked it….
@true pathan
please try and stay with the topics. you are sounding a bit like a crazy person when you accuse me of being like the man who kidnapped jaycee dugard.
that man is in jail. i don’t think you have any knowledge of any matters outside of pakistan if you make comments like this.
also, do not be insulted by my comments about US aid to pakistan. these are facts, that were directed towards a different poster who said that USA is Pakistan’s enemy.
I simply said, who gives his enemy 20 billion dollars?????
yes, the money is poorly spent, yes, america hopes that that money is also a help to america herself, but STILL…
who gives 20 billion dollars to an enemy?
america is not pakistan’s enemy. there are better ways to defeat an enemy than giving them money.
basically, it comes down to people saying that america created 9’11, which lost trillions of dollars for america, and america gives money to it’s enemies.
so, america has a goal of world conquest, apparently, that is to destroy it’s own finances, and give away finances to it’s enemies…..
hmmmm…
DEAR ALL,
TO START WITH MY HUNBLE REQUEST IS NOT USE FOUL LANGUAE IN SUCH DISCUSSIONS.
SECONDLY, LET’S NOT FORGET THAT FIRST WE ALL ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND THEN DIVIDED IN TO RACES OR RELIGIONS, WHICHIS FOR VARIOUS REASONS OR PURPOSES.
FURTHER MORE, THERE ARE GOOD & BAD PEOPLE IN EVERY SOCEITY & COUNTRIES AND AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEDGE GOES MAJORITY OF AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE GOOD PEOPLE BUT THEIR PROBLEM IS THAT THEIR KNOWLEGDE IS LIMIED TO THE INFORMATION THEY GET FROM THEIR LOCAL MEDIA AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE LITTLE EXPOSED TO THE REALITIES OF THE OUTSIDE WORLD.
IT’S A ESTABLISHED FACT THAT USA POLICIES ARE INFLUNCED LARGELY BY THE INTEREST OF ZOINIST AND A CLEAR & VERY LATEST EXMAPLE OF THAT IS THAT VERY RECENTLY WHEN THE UN SECURITY COUNCLY OVERWHEMLY VOTED AGIANST THE NEW SETTLEMNTS BEING BULID BY THE JEWS IN OCCUPPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY, USA VETOD THE RESOLUTION.
OTHER IMPPORTANT FACT IS THAT USA HAS ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE REGIMES, RULERS & DICTATORS IN THE THIRD WORLD FOR PROTECTING USA INTEREST AND WITHOUT CARING FOR THE LOCAL MASSES OF THOSE COUNTERIES. THE HISTORY PROVES THIS BECAUSE SHAH IRAN, MARCUS & HOSNI MUBARAK ETC ARE CLEAR EXAMPLES.
USA FRIENDSHIP WITH PAKISTAN CAN’T ONLY BE MEASURED BY THE AID (CHARITY) GIVEN TO PAKISTAN BUT IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO ADOPT & IMPLEMENT POLICES THOSE CAN PROVE THE FRIENDSHIP, FOR EXAMPLE RAISING CLEAR & OPEN VOICE FOR THE RIGHTS OF JUMMA & KASHMIR LIBERATION MOVEMENT AND CONDMENING THE ATROCITIES BEING COMMITED BY THE OCCUPIED FORCES AND SO ON.
IT WILL BE NOT FARE TO COMMEND THE EQUAL RIGHTS ENJOYED BY ALL PEOPLE LIVING IN USA AND THE FREEDOM OF PRACTCING VARIOUS RELIGIONS.
WE SHOULDN’T BE BLINDED BY THE RAGE OR HATE IN OURSELVES AND SHOULD TRY OUR LEVEL BEST TO PROMOTE PEACE BECAUSE THIS IS A WORLD WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE AND SHOULD JOINTLY TRY TO DEFEAT THE EVIL, WHICH CAN’T BE ONLY DEFEATED BY WARS BUT MORE EFFECTIVELY BY STRONG MOVEMENTS, AS IT HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY.
WISH YOU ALL PEACE & PROSPERITY.
@danstensland
What the fuck is 20 billion USD u r saying again & again u motherfucker,we have lost nearly 49 billion USD in ur fucking war against terror & hundreds of innocent Pakistanis.If u telling of Asia Bibi where was ur justice system when u jailed Dr Afia accusing of try to kill an american soldier.If must say if u really r morally devolped nation u would never asked of killer & spy Raymond Davis who have killed two innocent Pakistani guys
I must tell u one thing;the only thing u americans can do is just fuck here & there
I am tellling u u r nearly fucked up in Afghanistan & u will nearly see bloody horrible defeat in Pakistan.
@umair
you have no reason to be angry about my comment on the $20 billion in aid the US has given to Pakistan.
This is a fact, not meant as an insult to anyone, but directed to another person who accused the US of being Pakistan’s enemy.
I simply said, who gives their enemy $20 billion dollars? yes, pakistan has sacrificed many in war, and i don’t believe those sacrifices are lost. i understand that you are angry because america pressures pakistan to fight the taliban and extremists, but this is also pakistan’s war. these elements have been building in strength, and if they are not fought today, they will be fought tomorrow, when they are much stronger.
there are better ways to defeat your enemy than giving away $20 billion dollars, and creating 9’11 which lost billions or trillions for the US. It is almost like you are saying that the goal of the USA is to take over the entire world, by giving it’s money away to it’s enemies, and by destroying it’s own financial system and losing even more money…sure.
i mentioned asia bibi, again, because a different person, not you, accused americans of being intolerant of muslims. i explained that in america, of course there are people who are intolerant, but not the majority. we even accept mosques built in america, in every city. it is a question of muslim vs american or christian tolerance. there is really no argument. in america, an artist took a crucifix of jesus christ, and put it into a jar of urine. he called this “art.” the NEA, national endowment of art in america, which is supported by taxpayers, even gave him money for his “art.”
christians were angry about this, but they did not kill anyone. asia bibi is wanted by the majority in pakistan, for simply being a christian. she offered water to muslims, who said her water is unclean because she is muslim. now she is a blashphemer, and the majority wants her killed. how is that tolerant? the MAJORITY wants her killed.
how would you vote, umair? would you vote for bibi to be killed?
why do you believe dr afia is innocent, but davis is not? what is the difference? why are the two pakistanis on a motorcycle, with stolen cellphones, called innocent? they did no crime? do you believe that davis simply decided to drive down the street and kill two people for no reason? just like you believe that dr. afia did nothing and is in jail for no reason? why do you believe dr. afia, but you do not believe davis, who said the men raised weapons against him?????
if dr. afia was driving in the car and two men on a motorcycle with guns pointed weapons at her and she shot them, she would be a hero, right?
yes, you would believe her. so, how does your belief system work?
once again, my first comments were directed at someone else who made comments about me, but since you have decided to be rude, and get involved in a conversation that was not about you, i’ll give you the grace of a response.
without your rude language, which is not helpful to your comments.
thanks.
We should leave religion aside as this only creates divisions in an already divided world that weve got. Zeeshan was stupid enough to bring religion into this and stopped speaking rationally the moment he spoke jews Christians and all. Im a pakistani and i believe that religion has little to do with anything. But it is true that america does have its own interests when it gives the $20 million “aid” that you speak of. These loans are nothing but a burden on our society and only shakle our economy. The corrupt leaders send this money to their swiss accounts and the burden falls on the honest tax payers. in return the multinationals have their way with the 100% profits that they retain from their countries and the money gone to the swiss accounts only manages to grow the western economy. So point being that stop being proud of your government giving all these shitty loans to us. They have only managed to starve the africans and theyre planning to do the same to us.
Mr. don’t know what ur name is,,,,I m a Muslim.So I m required 2 follow Islam whatever I do. I said about jews,,,not christians,,,the next door to ours is the door of a ‘christian family’,,,,and we are living like brothers….what I am against is the imperialism of America,,,they think they have owned everything,,,their interests are ultimate and no one’s gonna beat them,,,but we have nothing to lose now,,,it can’t b worse for us…now, Pakistan will change and grow,,,the larger plans of CIA are not gonna succeed anymore. being a Pakistani I felt very bad when u called me a ‘stupid’…I m not sure u r a pakistani..or just an idiot.
Whether it is clear that peace is the best choice and war only brings misery to people.
However I think it will be last unforgivable mistake of US to attack Pakistan. It will be serious under estimation & miscalculation. No doubt Pakistan is a poor country but THIS IS TRUTH that they have over 200 nukes+cold tested hydrogens ready to launch from their stealth submarines that can easily hide in Hudson bay near NY and all around the US coast deep undetected for 3 months. In case of war, these stealths can unleash over 150 nukes at once not only to all border ports of US but also practically to all big cities with in US. That may break backbone of US for ever. Regarding Pakistan, it will be finish too but will never finish because Pakis is the nation that can fight 100 yrs later on a guerrilla war. Let we pray, there should be no war as war brings nothing but misery
FEAR? ISLAMOPHOBIA??!! do not make assumptions. i have even been in the NWFP of Pakistan. do you think if i buy into fear, i would travel to pakistan, of all places????
Islamophobia??? yes, there are people who have this, but in america, we allow freedom of religion, and there are mosques everywhere.
in pakistan, if you are a christian and drink the same water as a muslim, the muslim calls the water “unclean”
if you defend your christian faith, you can be put to death. Have you heard of Asia Bibi???
She is currently in jail for this, in pakistan, and the public wants to see her killed. A local governing official who made comments that he thought the blasphemy law in Pakistan was being used too strictly was murdered by his own security guard. The security guard stated that the punishment for blasphemy against the prophet is death, and since the governor was trying to erase this law, he was given death.
How dare you assume and try to insult me with the term “islamophobe”
americans are far more tolerant of muslims in america, than muslims are of non-muslims in pakistan.
in america, in many cases, a muslim can even sue the company if the company does not like it’s employees to wear religious clothing, like a hijab. the law will protect muslims and allow them to dress as they wish, even if they do not look like they belong to the business. in Pakistan, in some areas we were not even able to wear short pants. our women, who are not muslim, were told they needed to wear coverings over their heads.
so please, do not try to tell me about muslim tolerance, and try to accuse americans of being intolerant. i have seen muslim intolerance with my own eyes, in pakistan. i have seen not only tolerance but acceptance of muslims, and mosques in america, with my own eyes.
i don’t doubt that a lot of the money sent by america is improperly used. when you give someone billions of dollars, there is guaranteed to be corruption. none of us here would doubt that there is rampant corruption in the pakistani government. still, the case has been made that america is your enemy, and i still say, and you have not proven otherwise, that one does not give billions of dollars to his enemy.
if you are pakistani, then you can say as you wish. you can take our american money, and when floods and disaster strikes, we can send more money, and help, and you can continue to insult us for our help.
if we are your enemies, who are your friends??? where are pakistan’s friends to support pakistan, when in need?
is india, your neighbor, your friend??? is afghanistan your friend? sure you may get some money from saudi arabia, but most of that money goes to fund extremist madrasas.
if you want american aid money correctly spent, but you do not want american intervention, then YOU PAKISTANIS must clean up your own country, clean up your own government. DO NOT expect america to do it? how can we?
maybe you prefer that in the catastrophic floods, america sent no help, and no $20 billion over the past 10 years, because it is not to your perfect standards.
you sound like a whiny bratty child begging for candy, who has nothing to offer in return but to keep from screaming. i’m ashamed of you, to be honest. the last time i checked pakistan, there were next to zero americans there…but you can continue to blame us for your problems.
i am in favor of continued aid to pakistan. i would like to see pakistan succeed. it is a beautiful country full of beautiful people. you, however, do not seem like the kind of person who is contributing to making the world a better place. good luck.
I swear upon God we do not need even a dime from USA we have trillion of dollar of resources, we have world’s largest canal system in Punjab and Sind, we have a food basket for whole world if we could use the surface runoff of only Baluchistan province, we can generate thousands of megawatt electricity by making series of small dams on NWFP rivers, we do not even need the expertise from the west, we have best engineers, doctors, IT expertise working in Pakistan as well as all over the world. Just see our children performance in A and O levels exams they are making world records, we have a family system, we respect our elders they live with us, we do not through away them in retired house, we have social values , our children know the name of their fathers, we do not use women as sex symbol or sex slave as used in the west, we give them respect as sisters, daughters, mothers and wifes. We do not kidnap 10 girls kept them in captivity for 16 years and make them pregnant as you do with innocent girls like hundreds of Jaycee Dugard like girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard) We have 60% of young generation. We have a best friend in our north who never let us down when ever we ask help from him. We survived at the time of worst earth quake and super floods. If triangle of evils Israel, India and uncle Sam let us alone we will become world power and even guide the world in peaceful and joyful means. We do not need USA, he needs us, without our help they will be chopped like a mince in Afghanistan.
Mr. Danstenland, as u say Muslims are intolerate…then how did u manage to live in NWFP and reach back home safely in US??? u r kidding man,,,the lady u r talking about has been punished according 2 the law of the land,,u have nothing to do with our laws….because blasphemy laws are strictly implemented all around the world….
We don’t want to have enmity with u but your actions compel us to do so. Once America says that we have very strong relations with Pakistan,,,,,when we refuse to release Ray Davis,,then Hillary Clinton says that there is a danger of conflicts in Pak-US relations…what kind of relations we have??
The history of these relations makes the US intentions very clear,,,,In the cold war…when we were required Americans put a lot of money to create Taliban,,which I think was a mistake of Pakistan too..why did we help u??
then, when u won the cold war with the help of Pakistan…then Preslor amendments were introduced,,sanctions were imposed on Pakistan, double standard of US govt. were very clear…India can have Atomic bombs and Pakistan can’t have..why??
Then when Pakistan refused and made explosions in 97,,many other sanctions were imposed,,,but then the scenario changes again after 9/11,,then US govt. starts giving funds again….So, IT CAN BE CONCLUDED THAT AMERICA HELPS THOSE WHO ARE NOT NEEDY,,BUT IT HELPS THOSE WHO AGREE TO HELP IT,,,,there is a lot of hunger,poverty in African countries but why is America not helping them,,Pakistan can be a self sufficient country within few years if US runs away from this region.
And we’ll see the Indians as well as the Israel.
The goveronor of Punjab’s murder was condemned by everyone,,,if someones supports it,,then its his opinion but I think he’s not a patriotic Pakistani.
We are happy if u leave us alone,,,u r not doing this…because u need us more than we do,,,the so- called war against terror can’t be fought without our help. Ask from any official of your country,,he’ll guide u.
I think every thing is clear to u now !!!
oye oye, guys cool down!
Listen, everyone has an opinion and we should respect that.
There was a question as to what proof one has of the US being involved in the 9/11 situation. Well, i am not saying they are involved, but what proof of al-Qaeda’s involvement has the US produced? Honestly, apart from one suspeciously dubbed arabic video, what proof has anyone seen? Where are the Iraqi WMDs whose “proof” was delivered my Collin Powel in front of the United Nations Sec council?? Why can’t they catch Osama and Omer as they did Saddam? Yes, you have given us 20billion dollars, TO CONDUCT MILITARY OPERATIONS AGAINST OUR OWN PEOPLE mate, am i wrong?! Musfarraf, your ally, has openly said that time and again. Since when do we make friends by giving them charity/money? Where was our “friend’s” fifth fleet when we were torn apart in 1971? I dont want Pak to be an enemy of the US, but quite honestly, your friendship is costing us a lot more then $20billion. Whats the value of one US life? Is a Pak life cheaper? Thanks for your aid and thanks of telling us how much it is every time. I’d rather we die hungry then take money from you….they should try this diplomat as per law!
As far as the irrational comment about Muslims being enemies of the US is concerned, it is wrong. We are not anyone’s enemy and irresponsible commenst such as these should not be made. Educate yourselves before you talk of taking on the US. The science budget of one department of one of their university is more then our national budget. Get your own house together before you point fingers. The US has always openly said they will do all that is in their “National Interest”, so why blame them, they never lied! Spend on education, spend on social reforms, for heaven sake, spend on bettering your lives, dont elect corrupt people and stop burying yuour women in the name of religion/culture THEN talk of principles. Our time will come, but not like this. Live and let live.
Oh and, please, I dont think anyone of us is half qualified enough to quote from or comment on the Quran or the Bible. Leave them out of this, please. May the Lord bless us all.
Please do remember our country is saved becuse of ARMY.We need Musharraf to come back and take care as polotician makes so many mistakes where we landed with case like Raymond Davis.
Boy just go on Google search and write down 911 plot, you will see hundred of sites launched by your own writers and experts.
Experts my ass. They’re experts at manipulating so called “evidence” to prove their point of view. Like people manipulate the Bible and Quran to prove their point of view, from both sides. C’mon man. Just because there is a youtube video or article written don’t make it true, use common sense.
See I lived in Peshawar Pakistan near Afghan border, we pathans know what is going on, the great game has been started once again to control the resources of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran by USA. Every body knows that Pakistan has huge deposits of coal ,gas, copper, gold and even great amount of oil in the Mir Ali area of Waziristan. They have one of the best army and Airfoce in the world blended with nuclear arsenals and cruise missiles .Also the Pakistan geographical location is very important on one side is oil rich countries and on the other side are energy thirsty countries india and China. Actually USA is afraid of china as it is investing heavily in Pakistan to get the access of sea and transport the resources through silk route and USA does not want this. So it created a 911 plot with the help of Israel and India to control Pakistan. But the things are not running as they initially thought and game has become more complicated. It is quite obvious that IS|I, Iran, China and Russia created Afghani Taliban to kill the Americans and to kick out them from Afghanistan but in return USA, India and Israel planted the Pakistani Taliban to kill Pakistanis. What will be the consequences very simple?
USA will run way. Big looser will be India and Israel. How ?. Muslim population including the Christian, Sikhs and lower Hindu cast already has superseded, they really hate cruel Hindus ruling class so they will rule them in near future. Israel no problem Pakistani has some very cute baby nukes for them and they know that. Latest example how Sri Lanka successfully vanquish Indian sponsor Tamil civil war so urgently with help of Pakistan that before India come to know what was going on, war was finished.
WHAT???!
You still believe that the USA created the 9/11 plot??!!!
Who is educating you on this, and what proof do they have??!!
How does the USA try to find 19 people who are willing fly on airplanes, to their death, and cause the death of thousands of others??? Did they just send out an email, looking for volunteers???
Who are the people who planned this? And they all agreed?
Are you telling me that a government could create a plan like this, and everybody involved would agree on the plan, and tell nobody, and they would instantly find 19 people who are willing to do, and they would tell nobody, then they would risk being discovered by sneaking through airport security…oh wait, they say airport security was involved too…so now you must find airport security in 3 or 4 different airports who agree to let these men through to allow this to happen…then the claim is that we placed explosives in the towers, so now you must find people who are willing to secretly place explosives in the World Trade Center…how do you find these people, and oh, how do you just bring in enough explosives secretly to a building that is open 24 hours and under surveillance 24 hours, and start tearing apart walls to plant explosives????
Funny, and this plans works nearly perfectly, and NOBODY ever comes forward to admit to being a part of it. That is completely impossible. Just think about it!!!!!
IMPOSSIBLE!!!! Look, the CIA can’t even keep Ray Davis a secret, HOW DO YOU THINK THE CIA CAN CREATE 911 and keep it a secret?????
Still today, there is NO PROOF that the government did it, because the government DID NOT DO IT!!!!! think about it using your own mind, and just imagine how many things would have to work perfectly for this plan to work. impossible. do not believe the lies you are being told. just because you live in peshawar does not mean you understand “the great game.”
sorry, my friend, but i wish peace for you.
Just watch this vedio mate its regarding 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-fDgXzAj_o
@ irtza and true pathan
yes, i have seen most of the videos. too many to mention. irtza, the youtube video you sent me is actually a video that i have not seen before, but the entire video was based on comments that were taken from previous videos, and nothing new. everybody talks about melting steel, grainy videos that look strange, people who thought they heard explosions…yes, yes, yes. still, did you read my questions and answer a single one of them??? you have far more work to do in proving how a government could pull off 9’11 successfully.
Let me tell you something else…if you really think that the american government is so amazing and smart enough to make 9 11 happen, and ALL evidence is hidden, and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON comes forward to admit how they were involved…
do you not think our military would have just CREATED FAKE WMD LABS in iraq???? that would be SO EASY compared to 9/11, and it would have made george bush look like a hero. why would the USA endure international ridicule, when , as experts at creating hoaxes to manipulate the masses, they could have simply created fake wmd proof????
too many questions, and those videos are terrible at answering them. the videos, which speak of explosions in the towers, do not even consider the idea that if there truly were explosions in the towers, terrorists could have planted those too. they are only looking for one answer, and so are you. you will only hear what you want to believe, and take the views of a FEW scientists, not even close to the majority, and the views of a few professors, not even close to the majority, and a few grainy videos as proof, without really thinking about it.
once again, you did not answer a single simple question of mine, but you sent me a link to a youtube video, just the same way that every conspiracy theorist always does. solve your questions with a youtube video. sorry mate, i’m not buying into your lazy video answer~!!!!!
U need to watch documentary 9/11 Farenheit before arguing.
umair, fahrenheit 911 is the oldest video on the subject…a lot of the video was discredited, but once again old news, and no real proof.
just odd coincidences, like “don’t you think it’s odd that…and “isn’t it strange that…”
but still no real proof.
still no explanation as to how this could have been done. has anyone ever seen a building fall to the ground when it is struck by an airplane before??!!! no, but now everybody who wants to believe that it’s an inside job feels like they know how it should happen.
once again, try and answer my questions, don’t post boring videos from 2004!!!
loose change, zeitgeist, fahrenheit, truthorg….all old news. thanks but no thanks. seen it all. none prove it, all they do is present strange coincidences, and testimonies from citizens who are not experts in anything. popular mechanics science magazine put together a group of experts to look at scientific explanations, why don’t you want to read that? because it is against what you want to believe.
so, how does one go about finding this/??
Mr Danstensland,
I quote you “everybody involved would agree on the plan, and tell nobody, and they would instantly find 19 people who are willing to do, and they would tell nobody, then they would risk being discovered by sneaking through airport security…oh wait, they say airport security was involved too…so now you must find airport security in 3 or 4 different airports who agree to let these men through to allow this to happen…then the claim is that we placed explosives in the towers, so now you must find people who are willing to secretly place explosives in the World Trade Center”
You got it all planned out. Are you sure you weren’t involved? My point is not to accuse you but to show you that in a matter of seconds you listed out stuff that needs to be done to carry out that sort of a thing. Do you really think a government (especially one as advanced as the American government) isn’t more capable of doing this than Taliban (apparently people who live in caves)?
With regards to planting explosives in walls, they could have been strategically placed to take out stronger pillars. In that case, you wouldn’t need a whole lot (or even big) explosives I assume. Who knows? maybe big enough to fit in a harmless looking briefcase.
Again, I am not accusing the American Government for carrying out 9/11. What I am trying to elucidate is the fact that you should not make clear cut statements. It is not right to approve or reject a claim without any proof. There’s no proof that the government did it. But there’s also no proof they didn’t do it. And articles like these don’t help the government’s case.
I do not agree with True Pathan and I do not agree with you when you both make down right claims. The objective is to take in all the information and think critically about this stuff. To be aware of what’s going on. Only reject or withhold a claim if you’ve exhausted most, if not all, possibilities.
Oh Please danstenslandl how can you be so ignorant? Just take a quick look at HAARP.net as a starter. Wasting time defending Military and commercial enterprise as being innocent in the struggle to control the world’s resources is futile. We all know this is the agenda of a select few from the George Bush senior tribe. It’s been going on for years and if you put together a few publicly available snippets of information you will realise how well we are all being duped.
The human species is the only living entity on this planet that knowingly will destroy itself in order to be “the boss”. And the boss of what? No one can take the money and resources with them when they die. All they take is large volumes of angst and regret that they did not achieve their ludicrous goals.
The definition of religion is “the power of the few to control the many”. Most people are sheep and in their tiny worlds, think they control or contribute to the destiny of the many. What a load of rubbish. We all bow to the lowest common denominator-the ones who blatantly think they can do what they like (and do) and tell us otherwise.
Most people who comment in these types of forums are either radical, ill informed, or actually quite intelligent. The rest just go “baaa” and move on, like the good little sheep we are supposed to be!
Oh, also have a look at “Loose Change” and the US Govt response. With all it’s resources it came up with a very lame excuse for the way they say it happened! It’s quite ironic that ALL the scientists and technical advisors appearing on that video have either “died” or been severely compromised in their lives. Tell me that’s a “coincidence” my friend! No one in the US military seems to fall foul when things go wrong for the Govt.
Viewing all this from a country far from the hotbed is fascinating and also very troubling. We are no threat to anyone down here in the South Pacific, but even here we feel the long arm of American meddling.
Good luck with your perspective, I suspect you may be surprised in the next short period! :-)
You are right we should have unity among people of all provinces and the country will prosper.Our friendship should be with all countries.It was Musarraf who took us on right path.We need him back as the poloticans of Pakistan is very corrupt.
TRUE PATHAN: We really thanks Pakistani help for quelling the indian sponsor war of terror by Tamil tigers and we will provide all type of support and help to Pakistani brothers when ever they will ask. LONG LIVE SRI LANKA LONG LIVE PAKISTAN
welcome Srilankan,,,and we are ready to help u anytime u need !!! but we were very ashamed when the CIA and RAW or MOSAD backed terrorists attacked ur team in Lahore,,,I knw the security measures should have been much better but,,,,it took the International cricket away from Pakistan.
We propose that the United Nations of Asia be established on Adams Peak and let our wiser Nations like Siri Lanka, Maldives, Butan take the lead in ramming some sense into the larger arrogant and stubborn Nations like India, Pakistan and Afghanistan to go on a business mode rather that the usual cross border Kabbaddi. 3rd Party is emerging everywhere unstoppably.
The news report and Zeeshan’s comments are a lot of
bullshit. Both writers do not know what they are
talking about. Nukes are not candy that one can buy
and move in a pocket or hand bag. Think before you write. And your being Muslim has nothing to do with
Raymond Davis case. It simply is international politics.
Shehryar,,,,I don’t wanna say anything,,,because u are just a bloody idiot. Nukes can’t be shifted, but the maps,related technoloy or some parts that have an importance can be shifted,,,,The larger American plan can involve supply of US weapons to Al-qaeda but but they just want 2 involve Pakistan in it,,,They just want any reason to invade. Muslims are the reason Americans are so interested in pakistan,,,u r sitting in Canada I assume, and everyday we face suicidal bombings in Pakistan. I assume u r an ignorant person,,,,or u r an agent of fuckin’ CIA.
Shame on u.
We people being Muslims and Pakistanis are aware of the fact that the jews and the Americans can be our friends,,,they were, they are and will remain our enemies; its our IMAAN. Because its written in our Holy Quran. So the intentions of CIA and Raymond Davis or RAW and MOSAD are already known by us. What we lack is the willingness to beat them. When will become good Muslims; immediately we’ll start ruling the world again,,,as the history tells us.
Zeeshan, it is sad to hear that you believe that Americans will always be your enemy. We are not your enemy.
since 2003, America has given Pakistan $20 billion dollars-US dollars not rupees, in economic and military aid.
What kind of “enemy” gives money for you to build your economy, gives money for you to build your military????
During the great flooding in Northern Pakistan, the United States sent one of the largest aid groups to help with the injured, the displaced, and the rebuilding. Even to this day when you drive through the NWFP one can see remnants of even rice sacks supplied by the USA that poor people have kept to use around stone homes.
The USA is not Pakistan’s enemy. You are wrong.
come on man don’t tell me that u are that much stupid who can’t even understand that the aid USA is giving Pakistan is not to Pakistan Actually but to American puppet rulers and 70% of that money go back to swiss banks nd etc etc . at the other hand America is relying on taliban for the security of its Oil supplies in Afghanistan he gives money to Taliban for providing security . America is also funding Pakistani Talibans . So that he can destabilize Pakistan . He is doing drone attacks in Pakistan in which poor citizens children and women are dying . and Pakistani inteligence gave the pin point location of TTP’s(Tehreek-E-Taliban Pakistan) leader but no drone hit anywhere near him why ?
danstensland, what your government is not telling you is this $20 billion dollars that you(as tax dollars) have given is to buy politicians and military generals in Pakistan to do American bidding. This money never comes to public or for development purpose but end up in secret swiss banks of corrupt politicians.
American doesn’t care about poor/oppressed people of poor nations. As long as they have bought the ruling elite (feudal elite/dictators) to do their biddings.
I hope you people get off islamophobia and see your leaders history as what monsters(Taliban/Al Qaeda) USA created to defeat USSR in Afghan war has come back to haunt USA and normal people of Pakistan.
I wish Americans never vote GOP(Republicans) again who breed fear among their own people because frankly this is exactly what extreme islamists use(“fear of evil America”) to recruit people in their ranks.
Say no to fear…Stop buying fear from your politicians/leaders…my message is for people on both sides.
We can only give aid. If your corrupt politicians steal it, thats not on us. As far as “Islamophobia” goes, did you read this comment from a Pakistani?
Author: Zeeshan
Comment:
We people being Muslims and Pakistanis are aware of the fact that the jews and the Americans can be our friends,,,they were, they are and will remain our enemies; its our IMAAN. Because its written in our Holy Quran. So the intentions of CIA and Raymond Davis or RAW and MOSAD are already known by us. What we lack is the willingness to beat them. When will become good Muslims; immediately we’ll start ruling the world again,,,as the history tells us.”
Nah, we shouldn’t be concerned about Muslims,they don’t hate us.
Zeeshan is a Zio shill masquerading as a Muslim.
Every Jewish child learns about this elementary trick… :-D
Dear danstensland, let me set the record straight for u plz.,America has done no favour by giving aid to Pakistan, infact this aid is peanut as compared to sacrifices given by pakistan in America’s war on terror, Pakistan army and civilian casualities are anormouse more than us+nato combined in Iraq and Afghanistan.Its only due to logistic help and intelligence sharing by Pakistan that US is still in Afghanistan. AS for being a friend or an enemy of Pakistan, it wud have been much better if US was a declared enemy, coz the kind of subversive activities US is doing in Paklistan thru its CIA agents like Raymond Davis, only an enemy can do, but USA is doing it under the cover of being a friend. Its an act of igniting a sectarian war, in Pakistan and trying to threaten Pak nuclear assets by fake and engineered sting operation thru CIA. We pakistanis dont hate American pple, infact we love them so much that I wud love to take Hilary Clinton out for dinner date(lol),,, its the American govt policies we hate, bcoz these policies are anti pakistan dictated by Israel and India. I know that ordinary American is not well informed about world politics,, poor americans are deliberately kept in dark by american government, thru controlled media.. American pple are only informed about thier internal domestic politics and problems, not international. The only reason America is hated by muslim countries in general and pakistanis in particular, is due to US dirty games it plays to achieve its nefarious anti-muslim goals.
I wud again say that we love American pple, its the policies we hate.I can go on and on and write 10 pages, on the price Pakistan has paid for the sake of US and its war, but i rather stop at this. thanx.
khalid, i respect the sacrifices Pakistan and her people have made. I know that the Pakistani army has lost many soldiers. The army is proud, however, and confident that they can win. I believe they can. I spoke with Pakistani soldiers in the NWFP, and they believe the taliban can be crushed. I understand that you are angry because america is putting pressure on Pakistan to fight the miscreants/taliban, and maybe you feel like this only america’s war. I sincerely believe that it is Pakistan’s war, and Pakistan needs to do this.
Nobody likes war, and we all want peace, but if this is not going to happen today, then the taliban and the extremists are only going to get stronger, and the fight will be more difficult in the future. I was in Pakistan just before the lal masjid incident, then came the huge hotel bombing, and so many others have continued. in some tribal areas, opposing muslim groups have killed others, for no reason. i was given information in one northern area that sunnis came into the village and just began shooting at non-sunnis, until the army came to help. While i was there, sometimes we could not travel because the taliban had taken control of a bridge.
Like i said, i know you think this is only america’s war, but i truly believe it is Pakistan’s war as well, and these taliban/extremist groups have been seeking more and more control. if you do not fight them today, you will have to fight them tomorrow when they are stronger, with or without america.
i love the pakistani people, and wish the best for them.
dan, i partially agree with u, but u must know that before 9/11, Pakistan had never any problem with talibans or Afghanistan. The suicide bombing and other blasts to kill innocent pple by these miscreants only started when Pakistan was arm twisted by America to help them fight talibans. sssso it was never a pakistani war, infact this war was very cunningly shifted from Afghanistan to Pakistan by America with the conivance of India. This is the part of new world order devised by America.
I talked about the hidden intentions of CIA and jewish intelligence MOSAD,,,,u know what they r doing wid the palestinians,,,,America gives us nothing in response to our services,,,we have lost enormous lives in the CIA’s created war against terror,,,but now its our turn,,,with the passage of time u r definitely gonna face the music…and will see what our ISI can do…u objected to release the money of Kerry-lugar bill just because we weren’t issuing u fake visa’s,,,,and when we issued those visa’s,,,then u did this….tell me one thing Mr.Dansten,,,,what was Raymond doing with weapons on the roads of Lahore and who gave him the license to kill innocent people.??? He will be hanged again and again and again…..
zeeshan, nobody gave davis a license to kill innocent people. who said he wanted to kill innocent people? why did he have a gun? because he does security work for the CIA, of course he has a gun. why did the two men on a motorcycle have loaded guns?
do you believe that if a pakistani man had shot the two men with guns on a motorcycle instead, he would be a hero for shooting two robbers?
even the pakistani police are not saying these men were innocent; they were members of a gang of robbers, and already had 5 stolen cell phones with them. if a man approaches you with a gun, how do you know whether he only wants your cell phone, your money, or your life???
would you take that risk? or, if you had a gun and good training on how to use a gun, would you shoot him?
imagine yourself in the same situation. imagine yourself in NY. two men are following you on a motorcycle. they point a gun at you. what do you think is going to happen?
what you are trying to say, is that davis was simply out driving his car, saw two men, friendly men just enjoying an afternoon drive, and he decided for no reason to just shoot them.
well, of course if this is what happened, davis should never be free, but do your really believe this is what happened? that davis would risk his own life just to shoot two men for no reason, in a foreign country?
Ray Davis has no identity,,,he holds his Pseudo name…the US Govt. is not telling that what is his original identity,,,what is he doing in Pakistan? He doesn’t hold any diplomatic immunity,,,can u imagine if he held the immunity, then US govt. would be on the defensive side…I think your President Obama is a liar…or ignorant.,,But our great politician and foreign minister Qureshi had to resign because of taking a clear stance. The police have just not found weapons from his car,,they found many other things that are a proof of his linkages with Taliban of Pakistan and Al-Qaeda…he had some hidden agenda….another guy is arrested from Peshawar living unlawfully in Pakistan….and many other persons are having such agenda,,,we don’t know about them,,,,u know there hasn’t been any major suicidal attack in any area of Pakistan since this killer is arrested?? We have lost enormous innocent lives Mr. Dansten. Its enough now !!!!
Your success in Afghanistan is totally dependent on our support…don’t u know how Mullen said sorry when Pakistan stopped the supplies of NATO,,,we have many options dear ,,,,And its time to apply them now.
AKen Rechtstein you are so right, these bugs are masters of deceit.
“What kind of “enemy” gives money for you to build your economy, gives money for you to build your military????”
…..A V-E-R-Y D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S one!!!!
Mr.Dans,
Listen very carefully,now I think show is over,you got your son of bitch Raymond Davis(CIA agent) a cold blooded murderer back.Now on what we are arguing, but I think here you have a point that USA gave aid to Pakistan you say 20$ million.may be it can be 200$ billion but who cares.It is the only in the interest of America to pay to Pakistan for their support in Afghanistan and your so called fucking war on terror.Your idiot president OBAMA,who had been trying to prove Raymond Davis a diplomat,where as your own press New york times & Washington post have revealed that that man was a CIA.Agent.Your President is a big fool and Bastered even more stupid than our mother fucker ZARDARI, both shook hands and make big fool of their nations.So you want to prove that USA is friend of Pakistan.Damn you, i tell you who is friend, CHINA is a sincere friend of Pakistan.They never interfere in the internal problems of other nations.They mind their own business, their own economy.Not like you to play the role of a fucking policeman being fucked by Talibans.
It is the only interest of USA to feed Pakistan, where as we Pakistani nation think that we do not need your aid or aids, we are better off than your aid. Just imagine when Pakistan faced your so called sanctions, pakistan made Nuclear bomb,JF-17 thunder with our great friend China,we made missiles we made our own Tanks.But what happens when USA is our friend for the time being,we get 40 F-16 and when USA wants put an embargo on the supply of the spare parts of these F-16.
Dear we are better off than your aid, yes ZARDARI & Gilani both need that aid because they can not give up their imperial living style.Their whores like, Fauzia wahab,Firdaus Ashiq awan, Shazia maree, Sharmeela Farooqi and Asma arbab. All are there to make our KING ZARDARI happy and they are ruling our nation with your so called aid or aids,so give them because they need it.But please do not try to Change our minds that USA is friend of Pakistan. In 1965 USA put sanctions on Pakistan,in 1971, in 1977,in 1989 ,in 1998, damn you what else i should tell you USA tried to twist the Arm of Pakistan.How we can take you in as friend you are foe.
But i tell you again only one thing please leave us alone and take this so called democratic government in my country, the ill-legitimate child of USA ZARDARI & company back to America,we do not need such people here.
You keep your aid to your self because you need it more than us.Your un-employment ratio is growing.Your president is running around the world to seek the help to create jobs.Haa ridiculous going to India for creation of jobs.India it self is sinking under huge weight of its Military mights like Ex-USSR.
Same thing is going to happen to you as well.It is better you save your money for rainy season than disbursing among others.
Mr Muhammadqamarazam,
Thank you for telling it like it is though so
very painful.Not everyone here thinks this us gov
foreign policy is correct.Not at all!
I’d like a ‘War on Liar-ism’ That might help.
I wish you well
ZEESHAN YOU ARE AN IDIOT,YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE AND NOT MAKE A STUPID BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THIS.MUSLIMS ARE IN TROUBLE BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
The people like u r a shame for islam.What Zeeshan saying is the saying of Holy Quran .So u r denying Quran.And u must not deny the facts that US had never been our friend since its begining.U need to improve ur knowledge about history during 1965 war when Pak & US had A defence collaboration like seto & sento but these fucking americans never came to help Pak
The Quran does not say Jews and Americans are our ENEMIES. Do NOT take things out of context. DO NOT misquote the Quran. If one says that denying the Quran is a sin, I believe that misquoting the Quran is an even bigger sin.
You probably read the Arabic version of the Quran which you do not understand. You “somehow” don’t find time to read the actual translation of the the Quran. Then you decide to take single sentences out of a whole passage to misquote them. Please stop. You are only making things difficult for everyone.
Also, do not take my previous comment in the wrong way. I feel you might, since you tend to take things the wrong way.
The fact that I do not like what you said does not mean I disagree with the Author of this article. I feel there is truth in there.
In the holy Quran it is said that,”..Jews and disbelievers are not your friends..” there is no mention of “Americans”.besides there are good Practicing Muslims in that country too. Lets not take things out of proportion. What Raymond did was wrong, what US did for Pakistan is also known at the time if 1965 and 1971 both times during crisis our so called “Ally” and “Friend” abandoned us and were left to be eaten up. As for the money they have been sending, that we all know that it was a pay off for the mercenaries to the corrupt politicians. I believe what is being done in ME is another recruitment exercise where puppets will be placed to handover the resources of the region to the lord and master.
Most of this article is speculation and there’s little or no proof of any claims. Having said that it is entirely conceivable that the US govt. has and is continuing to conduct black flag operations … even go as far as giving weapons of mass destruction to Al-Qaieda hoping to provide “defensible grievances” so they can “retaliate”.
Nevertheless, as an American, I can tell you, Zeeshan, that Americans fall into 3 catagories vis-a-vis their opinions on Pakistan; first and the smallest group are the hatemongers you can rightly call the enemies of Pakistan, then there’s the largest group of regular Americans who are extreemly naive, ill informed & believe anything they’re told on TV and there’s a lot of negative propaganda on TV against Pakistan. Last but the most important group is of people who see through the bullshit and recognize Pakistani’s as there brothers and sisters in humanity; they are not your enemy. This is a growing number of peace loving folks who want their country to stop its imperial agenda and become a source of peace and justice in the world. They need you as a friend.
I m not against the ordinary people of America,,,I forgot to specify them,,,Everybody knows who’s Obama?? He’s neither a christian nor a muslim,,,he’s a zionist…(yahudi)…The primary agenda of all the American rulers is to save Israel..haven’t u heard about “skull & Bones” , “Bohemian Grove” and Illuminati group??
The people of America don’t know they are being ruled by Satanic people,,,We are not against the people of America,,we are against the jews and will remain against them…because everyone knows what they are doing in Palestine…
Dear ALL
Fasten your SEat Belts, some think big will happened near Soon, Due to this case….