Despite the refusal of the Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, to release any DNA results which might indicate the racial ancestry of Pharaoh Tutankhamen, the leaked results reveal that King Tut’s DNA is a 99.6 percent match with Western European Y chromosomes.
The DNA test results were inadvertently revealed on a Discovery Channel TV documentary filmed with Hawass’s permission — but it seems as if the Egyptian failed to spot the giveaway part of the documentary which revealed the test results.
Hawass previously announced that he would not release the racial DNA results of Egyptian mummies — obviously because he feared the consequences of such a revelation.
On the Discovery Channel broadcast, which can be seen on the Discovery Channel website here, or if they pull it, on YouTube here, at approximately 1:53 into the video, the camera pans over a printout of DNA test results from King Tut.
Firstly, here is a brief explanation of the results visible in the video. It is a list of what is called Short Tandem Repeats (STRs).
STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11
What does this mean? Fortunately, a genius by the name of Whit Athey provides the key to this list. Mr Athey is a retired physicist whose working career was primarily at the Food and Drug Administration where he was chief of one of the medical device labs.
Mr Athey received his doctorate in physics and biochemistry at Tufts University, and undergraduate (engineering) and masters (math) degrees at Auburn University. For several years during the 1980s, he also taught one course each semester in the electrical engineering department of the University of Maryland. Besides his interest in genetic genealogy, he is an amateur astronomer and has his own small observatory near his home in Brookeville, MD.
He also runs a very valuable website called the “Haplogroup Predictor” which allows users to input STR data and generate the haplogroup which marks those STR data.
For those who want to know what a haplogroup is, here is a “simple” definition: a haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation.
Still none the wiser? Damn these scientists.
Ok, let’s try it this way: a haplotype is a combination of multiple specific locations of a gene or DNA sequence on a chromosome.
Haplogroups are assigned letters of the alphabet, and refinements consist of additional number and letter combinations, for example R1b or R1b1. Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have different haplogroup designations. In essence, haplogroups give an inisight into ancestral origins dating back thousands of years.
By entering all the STR data inadvertently shown on the Discovery video, a 99.6 percent fit with the R1b haplogroup is revealed.
The significance is, of course, that R1b is the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Europe reaching its highest concentrations in Ireland, Scotland, western England and the European Atlantic seaboard — in other words, European through and through.
So much for the Afro-centrists and others who have derided the very obvious northwestern European appearance of a large number of the pharonic mummies. It seems like March of the Titans was right after all…
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Mayhaps he too takes a stipend from the University of East Anglia,something to do with stories of hubris featuring a Cnut.
Cacataur
The Skeptic is trying to rewrite history.
Rumplestiltskin may have intefered with the raw data.
The Skeptic
NOTHING in your answer backs YOUR claim DYS 438 – 12 (12 is Predominantely Black African)- YOU added this:
(12 is Predominantely Black African)
Dispersal patterns of M267-derived Y chromosomes in the Mediterranean
XVII Congresso Degli Antropologi Italiani
Sergio Tofanelli (1), Gianmarco Ferri (2), Laura Caciagli (1), Luca Taglioli (1), Donata Luiselli (3), Giorgio Paoli (1), Cristian Capelli (4)
Human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup J1 (International Society of Genetic Genealogy 2007) share a derived state (G) at the M267 mutation site. It has been argued (Semino et al., 2004) that this mutation originated some 24,000 years ago in the Near East or North-East Africa and spread in the Mediterranean by means of at least two temporally distinct migrations: the first would have occurred towards Aegean and Italian coasts in Neolithic times; a more recent one (estimated time bounds 8.7–4.3 Ky) would have diffuse M267-G in Northern Africa. According to other authors (Nebel et al., 2001; Al-Zahery et al., 2003; Di Giacomo et al., 2004), however, M267-G would have arisen as early as 10,000 years ago and would mark the historical expansion of Arabian tribes in the northern Levant and southern Africa.
We investigated the variability of M267-G chromosomes from 23 different Mediterranean populations (original and published data) at a total of 20 Y STR loci. Three different sets of markers were considered: the “Y-filer” set (DYS456, DYS389I, DYS390, DYS389II, DYS458, DYS19, DYS385a, DYS385b, DYS393, DYS391, DYS439, DYS635, YGATA-H4, DYS437, DYS392, DYS438, DYS448) allowed to more accurately reconstruct time and space of the main dispersal events associated with this mutation; the “MH” (DYS19, DYS388, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393) and the “DL3” (DYS388, YCAIIa, YCAIIb) sets allowed the origin and diffusion of local modal haplotypes to be better defined.
The results depict a more complex and deeper stratification of haplotype-clades than thought before. In fact, we could observe both, geographically structured and even lineages, that could be associated to pre-agricultural, Neolithic and historical demographic events.
Results and Discussion
It has been argued that J1s originated some 24,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent and spread by means of at least two temporally distinct migratory events: the first migration would have bring M267*G to Ethiopia and Europe in Neolithic times [2,11]; a more recent one (estimated time bounds 8.7–4.3 Ky) would have diffuse a J1 subclade, defined by the YCAII*22-22 haplotype, in the southern part of the Middle East and in northern Africa [2]. According to other authors [1,3,11], however, M267 would have arisen as early as 10,000 years ago and would contain genetic signatures (the Galilee and the Palestinian MH [4]) of the historical expansion of Arabian tribes in the southern Levant and northern Africa.
Our results give a substantial increment in terms of geographic coverage and evolutionary resolution with respect to previous analyses (60 haplotypes at 8 YSTR loci [2]), thus allowing a more accurate reconstruction of the demographic events associated with this mutation. The updated dispersal range of present-day M-267*G chromosomes embraces all Mediterranean countries other than vast areas of Eurasia, the Arabian peninsula and eastern Africa, with frequency peaks reaching over 60% in northern Caucasus, Sudan, Maghrib, and the Middle East (Figure 1).
Frequency was inversely correlated to haplotype diversity (MH dbase) because populations from southern Italy, Iberia and Anatolia, where J1 lineage is at low frequency, showed the highest values at mean number of pairwise differences (Figure 2) and Nei’s I (data not shown). The shape of mismatch distributions was ragged for European and Jewish populations, indicating a constant deme size over a long period, whereas unimodal profiles, suggesting a recent rapid growth, were observed in Islamic populations from northern Africa and the Levant.
Complementary demographic inferences were obtained for M172 chromosomes as mismatch analyses gave unimodal profiles on the European shores and in Anatolia and ragged distributions on the African shores. The fact that J2 bell-shaped curves showed lower mean inter-allele differences than J1 ones suggest that J1 chromosomes have undergone population expansions earlier than J2s. Hence, M267 and M172 sites describe phylogenies that experienced different demographic dynamics in time and space.
Other factors than a demographic expansion could arrange haplotype variability into a bell-shaped distribution of pairwise differences: a single localized size expansion could hinder a stationary state at a wider geographic scale or more ancient events; the adhesion to site-finite mutation models could underestimate the time of divergence between STR haplotypes. In order to indirectly verify the occurrence of the above sources of error we performed a mismatch analysis at the Y-filer set on the two largest population samples: Central Italy and Northern Africa (Figure 3).
Again, MD profiles strongly differed on the two Mediterranean sides with a smooth unimodal curve for African haplotypes and a stretched multi-peak profile for Italian haplotypes.
A confirm of the occurrence of a true population expansion would be the presence of star-like patterns within median networks of STR haplotypes. The median-joining network constructed from the haplotypes of the Y-filer dbase is shown in Figure 4. Two star-like conformations can be recognised: a inner one (Exp 1) involving Sudanese haplotypes, one of which exactly matching with one Algerian haplotype; a second one involving Sudanese, Algerian and Tunisian haplotypes (Exp 2).
There are two possible time frames in the history of Mediterranean peopling where to place this putative episodes of expansion: one is the spread of Islam since the VII century AD, one is the diffusion of Ibero-Maurusian and Capsian Mesolithic cultures (15-5 Kybp).
Estimated divergence times for the Exp 2 event (Trho=9.1 Kybp, 95% CI: 7.6-10.6; TASD=9.1 Kybp, 95% CI: 4.8-13.4) exclude a historical expansion and are in good agreement with archaeological evidence of the Ibero-Maurusian/Capsian transition (9-10 Kybp [12,13]).
AGAIN, King Tut is predominantly Caucasian – Arab Semitic White.
Looks like the bottom just fell out of the market for clunky fake gold jewelry with a Egyptian motif.
CN
I joined this discussion and I brought the source article for reference in excerpts. I quoted the source article for reference in excerpts so that you and anyone else could read the whole article. I quoted the source article for reference in excerpts so that anyone could read the whole article not to prove that the sickle cell gene was not by way of several mutations but that the specific mutation according to the time of Rb1 occurred at a minimum 30,000 years ago. In other words whether or not the Afrikan R1b=M343 and sickle cell mutation is low in the Lebanese population is beside the point as the time of its contribution cannot be definitively pinpointed to the slave trade, which is merely a hopeful suggestion by the analysts, since the contribution of the Afrikan R1b-M343 had to occur between 30,000 years ago, the pre-Islamic expansion (600 AD approx), and the modern slave trade (1440 AD +). The existence of the sickle cell in the Muslim population of Lebanon is highest, but this does not prove Afrikans were not living in Lebanon pre-Islamc, and the type of sickle cell found in the Muslim population of Lebanon is not the Saudi=Asia-ME-Senegalese types, but the Benin! Were the other types of sickle cell mutations the focus of the Muslim population in Lebanon, there would be no need for analysts to attempt to understand why the Benin type is in the Muslim population. You may be reading the whole article but you are missing the factors of sickle type determination and mutation time frames. For instance, the Senegalese Muslims, the Almoravids have a sickle type that is much less debilitating than the Benin and in fact reminds of the Saudi-Asian type. Were the type of sickle cell found in Italy, Greece, etc not the Benin type there would be no need to try to understand how it got there since its presence is hereditary by way of both parents, indicating a population large enough to make the passing of the trait in both paternal and maternal lines. Has only the trait been found you might argue the Afrikan contribution was inconsequential but the disease is defined by the trait from both parents. This generational passing to show up in both males and females had to be as long post-Islam to the slave trade, taking the historical Moors into account in Iberia, etc.
The point was to show that Tut En Ka Amun DSY438=12, which is predominant among Afrikans, i.e., non-Europeans. To get caught up in whether these independent clades, subclades or paragroups were not found in Sub-Saharan-Afrika does not preclude its high frequencies in Central Afrika, the Siwa, Cameroon, etc., as a major branch of the R1b and R1a trees.
The problem is that when you think of COMMON ANCESTOR you think in mix terms, since Black is a phenotype of the so-called Black Afrikan. When you say ME you make the assumption that no such phenotype ever existed, that is black complexioned people of Asia and the ME. If you take out your mixed terms, then R1b was phenotypically unchanged until mutations at 30,000 years ago as it entered Saudi-Asia, etc. If you cannot accept the phenotype was unchanged until that time then saying the COMMON ANCESTOR of the Saudi-Asia-ME-Europeans was in fact no longer phenotypically Black African — you are right. So, the contention seems to be that it is impossible for R1b and R1a to be in Black Afrika without back migration. The point is moot the phenotype remained unchanged, ie., whether you call it Black or Not-European depends upon the semantics of your racial sensibilities…but do not get it twisted R1b in Afrika is not evidence of Europeans leaving their DNA footprint and R1b in Europe is not evidence of Black Afrikans leaving their DNA footprint. You could call the R1b in Afrika the southern tree that thrives on sunlight. It really does not matter since the two trees are descendants of the same seed under differing environmental conditions. Is that better?
Also you stress R1b from a common ancestor as if R* is not the common ancestor but that R1b of ME is the common ancestor. That is incorrect. R* undifferentiated in high frequencies in Afrika is ancestral to all others not in the specific so-called European R1b-M297 and M269 branches of the P25 tree. Different branches, but the same common ancestor. The only continent having high frequencies of the rare R* undifferentiated is Afrika !
When you say that R1 originated in the ME/Saudi-Asia region, you are not wrong. However, before R1 was R* undifferentiated. See the difference now?
Fulvio Cruciani et al, Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages, European Journal of Human Genetics (2010), 1–8. Mid halocene – 7,000 to 5,000, which falls in time with the proposed back migration of 9500 – 4100 years ago.
Abstract:
“Although human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b are quite rare in Africa, being found mainly in Asia and Europe, a group of chromosomes within the paragroup R-P25* are found concentrated in the central-western part of the African continent, where they can be detected at frequencies as high as 95%. Phylogenetic evidence and coalescence time estimates suggest that R-P25* chromosomes (or their phylogenetic ancestor) may have been carried to Africa by an Asia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times. Here, we describe six new mutations that define the relationships among the African R-P25* Y chromosomes and between these African chromosomes and earlier reported R-P25 Eurasian sub-lineages. The incorporation of these new mutations into a phylogeny of the R1b haplogroup led to the identification of a new clade (R1b1a or R-V88) encompassing all the African R-P25* and about half of the few European/west Asian R-P25* chromosomes. A worldwide phylogeographic analysis of the R1b haplogroup provided strong support to the Asia-to-Africa back-migration hypothesis. The analysis of the distribution of the R-V88 haplogroup in >1800 males from 69 African populations revealed a striking genetic contiguity between the Chadic-speaking peoples from the central Sahel and several other Afroasiatic-speaking groups from North Africa. The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 9200–5600 kya, in the early mid Holocene. We suggest that R-V88 is a paternal genetic record of the proposed mid-Holocene migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers through the Central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin, and geomorphological evidence is consistent with this view.”
Testing for R1*-P25 in Afrika was found to be complicated:
African R1*-M173 chromosomes were tested for the P25 mutation, and came up negative. What does this then mean? It means that while Africans carried rare R1 chromosomes bearing P25, they also carried examples without P25 [see Hassan et al. 2008, for example].
Even if a back migration of 9500 – 4100 years ago given that the mutations of R1b occurred 30,000 years ago, and R1a mutations 18,500-10,000 years ago means when R* undifferentiated walked out of Africa some 150,000 – 75,000 years ago, it was phenotypically Afrikan (Black) when it entered Asia and the mutations then did not occur until 30,000 years ago or 45,000 years after leaving Afrika for Asia, yielding the different sickle cell mutations outside of Afrika.
King Tut is, if the screen shot is his, was 438=12.
Cruciani 2010 paper on R1b in Africa:
“North African R1b1 seems more related to Egyptian R1b1, and therefore to Sahelian R1b1. Almost all European R1b1 has DYS438=11, while almost all sub-Saharan R1b1 has 438=12. North African and Egyptian R1b1 belong overwhelmingly to 438=12.”
Conclusion:
“Egyptian R1b1 is definitely more closely related to Sahelian R1b1 than to European R1b1. Sahel’s R1b1 is 2/3 V88* and 1/3 V69. Egyptian R1b1, excluding the Siwa oasis which seems to have suffered genetic drift, is about 50-50 V88* and V69 (note that Siwa Oasis has both V88* and V69, but its V88* frequency seems abnormally high and is probably due to genetic drift since it’s an oasis far away on the western border of Egypt). On the other hand, European and West Asian R1b1, totaling 9 samples, are about half and half V88- and V88+, with no sample of V69. And the haplotypes of European V88 are very different from Egyptian V88*.”
Two different trees and mutations which if you do not recognize V88 (-) negative and V88 (+) positive mutations in or out of Afrika will keep all Europeans thinking the branches are the same when in fact they are two branches of R1 (b) and (a) from the common ancestor R* whether Afrikan originated or not, but again with the sickle cell mutation the environment for malaria would have necessitated it arose in the Tropics first then mutated downward to the sickle cell mutations of lesser lethality than the Benin type.
Hopefully, we can resolve that we are on the same page that the R1b in the ME arose in 30,000 years ago with the relevant mutations and even if a back migration to Afrika 9500 – 4100 years ago would mean it went out in the ancestral or derived state and returned (back migration) in the ancestral or derived state. If the mutation for lactose intolerance is say T but the ancestral state is C, that when C out and becomes T it is a negative mutation. If C goes out and returns C it is positive and pheno-typically unchanged.
Ancestral state – Refers to the state of a SNP that has mutated and is shared by the most people. Example: A negative result on a SNP means it is ancestral, a positive result means it is derived.
Derived state – Refers to the state of a SNP that has mutated, usually in one man, from the ancestral state and created a new haplogroup or sub-clade of a haplogroup. A positive SNP result is derived, a negative SNP result is ancestral.
Example : Lactose Intolerance:
You would need to know the state C>T or C>C to know definitively whether the R1 originated at home and mutated outside home which both are found in so-called Afrikan specific haplogroups/paragroups/clades/sublcade, etc., that is both positive and negative for lactose intolerance are found in Afrika and is attributed to the 10,000 – 8,500 years ago introduction of milk producing animals. This falls within the mutation time scale for R1a ! However, R1a-M173 in Afrika is not pheno-typically European, right? Well, if an Italian has sickle cell that is the Saudi-Asia type the analysts know the origin. If it is the also milder Senegalese type, the analysts know the origin. Nothing changes the origin of the mutation in historical placement. It does not matter that King Tut might appear to be R1b-M269 since this too is found in moderate frequencies among the Central Afrikans, and the determinative of non-European sources are the SNPs. DSY-438=12 is not European !
MRCA Rb1 in Afrika minimum 75,000 years ago.
MRCA R1b in Asia minimum 30,000 when other mutations occurred.
MRCA R1A wherever it is found 18,500 years ago and mutations determine whether Afrikan, Saudi-Asia, ME or Europe!
Three different events! One common ancestor geographically, but ultimately, the R* undifferentiated is still highest and most frequencies are found in Afrika regardless of the sly use of not-sub-saharan which does not negate Senegal to The Sahel as the orgination of two sickle cell mutations, which again, are noted to have occurred at a minimum 120,000- 75,000 years ago!
Once you understand the mutations did not occur until some 45,000 years after leaving Afrika for Saudi-Asia and beyond at 30,000 years ago, then making the claim that R* in Afrika is non-originating is like saying the chicken came before the egg.
So…
“Cultural references to the chicken and egg intend to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. It could be considered that in this approach lies the most fundamental nature of the question. A literal answer is somewhat obvious, as egg-laying species pre-date the existence of chickens. However, the metaphorical view sets a metaphysical ground to the dilemma. To better understand its metaphorical meaning, the question could be reformulated as: “Which came first, X that can’t come without Y, or Y that can’t come without X?”
R1b and R1a could not have formed without R*. At least, in my opinion.
These STR values for 17 out of 20 markers visible in the video are as follows:
1 – DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
2 – DYS 385a – 11
3 – DYS 385b – 14
4 – DYS 389i – 13
5 – DYS 389ii – 30
6 – DYS 390 – 24
7 – DYS 391 – 11
8- DYS 392 – 13
9 – DYS 393 – 13
10 – DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
11 – DYS 438 – 12 (12 is Predominantely Black African)
12 – DYS 439 – 10
13 – DYS 448 – 19
14 – DYS 456 – 15
15 – DYS 458 – 16
16 – DYS 635 – 23
17 – DSYGATAH4 – 11
18 – DSY 388 – not shown
19 – DSY 426 – not shown
20 – DSY 449 – not shown
R1b Mutation Time scale of 30,000 and R1b1b2 Proposed for King Tut:
“DNA testing performed by http://familytreeDNA.com reveal haplogroup R1b1b2 M269+. People with this haplogroup are thought to have left the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East over 10,000 years ago, and spread to Eurasia before spreading out over Europe.”
Determining haplotypes by triangulation: http://www.kerchner.com/deducedancestralhaplotype.htm
“…example of two males from different direct male line descendant branches of a common male ancestor whose test results yielded exactly matching haplotypes. In that case the haplotype shared exactly by the descendants is obviously the Ancestral Haplotype. However if the direct line male descendants do not match exactly and instead have a mutation or two in their respective haplotypes the problem of deducing the Ancestral Haplotype becomes a little more detailed and complicated and the project administrator needs at least three independent direct line male descendants on different branches down from the common male ancestor….”
In King Tut’s case which markers were exact?
Cactuar
I have presented links from PROFESSIONAL sources – I do NOT know what you call research if not that – I see you refuse to do any research of your own, just hearsay, and, seems you have NO INTENTION of backing any of your hearsay up.
He has no research of his own,merely presenting words thought perhaps to have some miraculous intrinsic meaning.
And yet without the key to unlock the mystery there is nothing,merely some sort of fable perhaps?
The Skeptic
Wiki presents very balanced, excellent discussion of R1b – FIRST – from a COMMON ancestor, NOT from Black people – a mutation occurred in the ME, its origin. Blacks, Semitic White, European Whites, and Asians have different subclades , including for sickle cell disease – hence, this id differentiated from ethnic origins.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29
I am NOT certain what your point is- there is NO evidence – the Black Nubians were the Ancient Egyptians that can be inferred from this. Arab Semitic Whites, and Blacks are two different ethnic groups – proven by DNA, especially, haplomarkers.Many answers back, I pointed out R1b occurs in some Sub Saharan Black tribes, WITHOUT mixing.
Sitabanu
Read our discussion of the article a few answers back – after centuries of close contact between Lebanese Muslims with Blacks – the frequency of SCD is relatively low.READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE – I presented the quote.
Cos Seven
You don’t even realize what the country called Kemet is = Ancient Nubia – present day Sudan – minus the 1/4 of Southwestern Nubia, annexed by the Ancient Egyptians in 1521 B.C.. Nubia, and, the Ancient Egyptians had an on again, off again, relationship – hence, Black Nubian Pharaohs in Ancient Egypt for about 100 years.
Cactaur
I suggest you do your own SERIOUS research.
Cos Seven Southwestern Nubia should be Southwestern Egypt.
Do your own damn research!
First off show me a link to the actual frescoes and not an artists rendering. Secnd of all you claim that “black” Nubians only ruled for about 100 years. Bullshit. Kemetic culture came from people South of Kemt which would actually be more like Uganda than Kush/Nubia. So therefore its clear that the first dynasties were “black” Nubian. Look at the Narmer palette. That is a “black” man, even skeletally, look at the long limbed, skinny legs.
Whatever though Im done wasting time.
THE SICKLE CELL MUTATIONS NUTSHELL, R*-M173, M343, M269, ETC:
J Hum Genet. 2011 Jan;56(1):29-33. Epub 2010 Oct 28.
Y-chromosome R-M343 African lineages and sickle cell disease reveal structured assimilation in Lebanon.
Haber M, Platt DE, Khoury S, Badro DA, Abboud M, Tyler-Smith C, Zalloua PA.
Source :
Medical School, The Lebanese American University, Beirut, Lebanon.
Abstract
“The origin, time of spread or details of the association of SCD with Lebanese Muslims cannot be deduced from the genetic content of sickle haplotypes. The sickle mutation is estimated to have arisen 3000–6000 generations ago,…whereas the haplotypes surrounding the β-globin locus are even older, limiting specificity of Lebanese SCD geographic origin.”
Sickle Cell Mutation time estimate if 40 years is a generation is 120,000 years ago and at 6000 generations is 240,000 years ago! Conservative estimates are 150,000 to 75,000 years ago. As noted already, the mutations to just R1b occurred 30,000 years ago.
CN
I sited excerpts from the sources. It is good to see you read the sources I provided. The point was to not to address the low frequency of Afrikan genetics in Lebanon but that the frequencies are there distinguished from the ME R1 and its subclades, since the type of sickle cell in Asia is not the same as the more fatal type of the Benin traits. This is why making the claim that R1 originated in the ME is only part of the story as the sickle cell gene is thousands of years older than the Asian/ME R1. In fact, Central Afrika has more sublades of the R* which are the undifferentiated (R*) branch of R*-V88 which is ancestral to M269, the dominant R1-M269 positive found in the European groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe
“DNA evidence suggests that during the Last Glacial Maximum there was some gene flow from Africa into Iberia. After the Last Glacial Maximum, when the European climate warmed up the refuges are thought to have been the source from which Europe was repopulated. African lineages that had been introduced into the Iberian refuge would have then dispersed all over Europe with the Northward expansion of humans. This could explain the presence of genetic lineages in Eastern Europe and as far North as Russia, that appear to have prehistoric links to Northwest and West Africa(see MtDNA).
[Sources: Maliarchuk BA, Czarny J (2005). “[African DNA lineages in mitochondrial gene pool of Europeans]” (in Russian). Molekuliarnaia Biologiia 39 (5): 806–12. doi:10.1007/s11008-005-0085-x. PMID 16240714.
Malyarchuk BA, Derenko M, Perkova M, Grzybowski T, Vanecek T, Lazur J (September 2008). “Reconstructing the phylogeny of African mitochondrial DNA lineages in Slavs”. European Journal of Human Genetics 16 (9): 1091–6. doi:10.1038/ejhg.2008.70. PMID 18398433.]
R* in Afrika with the sickle cell mutation during the Last Glacial Maximum which ice remnants are isolated to the high mountains of Morocco and Kenya. The conditions on the ground would not have precluded the sickle cell mutation as protection against the most virulent form of malaria, as it did outside of Afrika, when R spread into Saudi-Asia-ME-Europe, etc.
“Most of the present-day European males with the M343 marker also have the P25 and M269 markers. These markers define the R1b1b2 subclade.”
Source :
http://www.peach.dreab.com/p-Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29
“While Western Europe is dominated by the R1b1a2 (R-M269) branch of R1b, the Chadic-speaking area in Africa is dominated by the branch known as R1b1c (R-V88). These represent two very successful “twigs” on a much bigger “family tree”.
“The alternative way of naming haplogroups is to refer to the SNP mutations used to define and identify them, for example “R-M343” which is equivalent to “R1b”. Haplogroup R1b is in other words now identified by the presence of the single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation M343, which was discovered in 2004. From 2002 to 2005, R1b was defined by the presence of the SNP named P25.”
Therefore the West Afrikan specific sickle cell SNP is ancestral to the milder form of the Saudi/Asian SNP, as evidenced by the presence of DSY428=12 found in the Afrikan population and not the European or Me population.
“Also prior to 2002, major Y DNA signatures based on markers other than SNPs were recognized. In Western Europe the STR haplotype known as the Atlantic Modal Haplotype was found to be most common by Wilson et al. Even earlier research using RFLP genotyping identified two distinct haplotypes within what is now called R1b1b2. In southeast Europe and southwest Asia (e.g. the Balkans, Georgia and Turkey) “haplotype 35” or “ht35” was found to be a common form of R1b1b2, whereas in western Europe “haplotype 15” or “ht15″ dominated in frequency.”
“R1b1*, like R1b* is rare. As mentioned above, examples are described in older articles, for example two in a sample from Turkey, but most cases, especially in Africa, are now thought to be almost mostly in the more recently discovered sub-clade R-V88 (see below). Most or all examples of R1b therefore fall into subclades R1b1a (R-V88) or R1b1b (R-P297). Cruciani et al. in the large 2010 study found 3 cases amongst 1173 Italians, 1 out of 328 West Asians and 1 out of 156 East Asians. Varzari found 3 cases in the Ukraine, in a study of 322 people from the Dniester-Carpathian region, who were P25 positive, but M269 negative. Cases from older studies are mainly from Africa, the Middle East or Mediterranean, and are discussed below as probable cases of R1b1a (R-V88).”
“Suggestive results from other studies which did not test for the full range of new markers discovered by Cruciani et al. have also been reported, which might be in R-V88.
[1] Wood et al. reported high frequencies of men who were P25 positive and M269 negative, amongst the same north Cameroon area where Cruciani et al. reported high R-V88 levels. However they also found such cases amongst 3% (1/32) of Fante from Ghana, 9% (1/11) of Bassa from southern Cameroon, 4% (1/24) of Herero from Namibia, 5% (1/22) of Ambo from Namibia, 4% (4/92) of Egyptians, and 4% (1/28) of Tunisians.
[2] Luis et al. found the following cases of men M173 positive (R1), but negative for M73 (R1b1b1), M269 (R1b1b2), M18 (R1b1a1, a clade with V88, M18 having been discovered before V88) and M17 (R1a1a): 1 of 121 Omanis, 3 of 147 Egyptians, 2 of 14 Bantu from southern Cameroon, and 1 of 69 Hutu from Rwanda.
[3] Pereira et al. (2010) in a study of several Saharan Tuareg populations, found one third of 31 men tested from near Tanut in Niger to be in R1b.
Regarding R*-and Sickle Cell:
http://images.google.se/imgres…
“Sickle Cell Disease today is found in North America, Southern Italy, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, the Eastern Province of Central India, and primarily in equatorial Africa. It is believed that sickle cell started in four different regions, and from three different mutations. One of the mutations is believed to have occurred randomly in two different locations. Scientists have examined the haplotypes of individuals with Sickle Cell to trace where it is these different mutations came from. It is currently believed there are four haplotypes:
Senegal haplotype from the Atlantic Coast of West Africa
Benin haplotype from Central West Africa, Angola, and Kenya
Bantu/Central African Republic haplotype from Zaire, the Central African Republic, Angola, and Kenya
Asian haplotype from Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, and Central India .
In other words the Afrikan R* is differentiated from the Eurasia, Saudi – Asian by the mutation at the sickle cells, therefore, the Afrikan R* could not be a back migration from Asia/ME since the threat of malaria was greater in Afrika than Eurasia. The phenotype R* of Afrika had to express the most virulent form in the Tropics of Afrika before going into Saudi-Asia, etc to mutate again with the lesser form of the disease. The R1a/R1b/R1b1a/c in Afrika is not the same R* outside of Afrika.
Hope that clears up the claim that Afrikans were receivers of the R1 from Asia since the multiplicity of SNPS of Afrika are found in higher frequencies.
In short, there is one and only one mutation for the development of sickle cell and the one that causes death is Afrikan specific Benin and correlates with migrations from West Afrika into the Sahel and beyond and not from Saudi-Asia-ME-Europe as a back migration mutation.
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1589430
“Though African haplogroup R chromosomes are generally quite rare, R-P25* (R1b1*) chromosomes are found at remarkably high frequencies in northern Cameroon (60.7–94.7%),
[http://hammerlab.biosci.arizona.edu/publications/Wood_2005_EUR.pdf]
“Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome and mtDNA variation in Africa: evidence for sex-biased demographic processes – Elizabeth T. Wood et al., European Journal of Human Genetics (2005) 13, 867–876] especially among the Ouldeme of Northern Cameroon in west central Africa, aging at least 4,100 years. [ [http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2002_v70_p1197-1214.pdf] A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa Is Supported by High-Resolution Analysis of Human Y-Chromosome Haplotypes Fulvio Cruciani et al.,Am. J. Hum. Genet. 70:1197–1214, 2002] R1*-M173 are also observed in the Bantu of southern Cameroon (14.3%), Oman (10.7%), Egypt (6.8%), and the Hutu (1.4%). Whereas the R1*-M173 undifferentiated lineage is present in all four populations, the two downstream mutations, M17 (R1a1) and M269 (R1b1b2), are confined to Egypt and Oman. It is plausible that the African and Omani R1*-M173 chromosomes may be relics of an ancient back migration from Asia to Africa, which may have been a southern branch of an Upper Paleolithic westward expansion of this clade. The antiquity of the M173 backflow is implied by the total lack in sub-Saharan Africa of downstream mutations R1a1-M17 and R1b1b2-M269, associated with the post–Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) reinhabitation of Eurasia.
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1589430
“Note that haplogroup R1b and haplogroup R1a first existed at very different times. The mutations that characterize haplogroup R1b occurred ~30,000 years bp, whereas the mutations that characterize haplogroup R1a occurred ~10,000 years bp.”
The postulations of a back migration of a minimum 4100 years ago had nothing to do with the mutations of R* undifferentiated in Central Afrika 30,000 years ago !
Cactaur
Can you provide more details about what you are referring to.
Cos Seven
Blacks and Whites have different skeletal ratios, and, NOW, DNA can delineate ethnic heritage to a high degree. The Ancient Egyptians, and, Nubians may NOT have used ethnic terms, butt their paintings clearly indicate they were aware of the differences. I am positive, you can tell Jamie Farr(Arab American), and Bill Cosby (Black American) are NOT in the same ethnic group.You can deny ethnicity as much as you want, but we all can delineate ethnic groups, even, many times, mixed heritage, although it becomes more difficult with eah succeeding generation – there is NO question of admixtures – very obvious – just who are the builders of the Pyramids – definitly NOT Black Nubians, and, NOTT Indo European Aryan Whites – Asians were almost nonexistent in the ME – North Africa has been in the ME since about 5,000 B.C..- almost all of which was under Arab rule – Black Nubians did rule for about 100 years of it – approximately 800 – 700 B.C..I am of the opinion, King Tut was of mixed heritage, mostly Arab Semitic White, some Black Nubian, and, a small amount of Asian. Visit this link if you have NOT already – excellent article as well as discussion by many – many experts to: http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-whi
You know,further west in the Sierras.
I can only suggest you look at these frescoes again.
The problem here is that egotistic people who have built up in their mind both an attachment to the prestige given to the “white” identity, especially those in parts of the world where europeans have colonized and given favor to those whose appearance is most like theirs, and to the achievements of those theyve been told were “white” by those same ones who want to also colonize history, use the terms “white” and “black” in the most retarded manner. Its to the point the argument/debate becomes an exercise in folly.
Some want to say “quit claiming ArabSemitic White achievements for the Black Nubian culture.” This to me is a sign of such foolishness. While its true that the “true” Nubians were very dark skinned they never identified themselves as “black,” at least not in the time period were discussing which would be around when pyramids were built and “haploids” expressing for the first time. They like the Fur of DARFUR identified themselves geographically for the most part.
And while there are “black” people in America who are the complexion of the same “egyptians” you want to call “arab semitic white” you dont call them arab semitic white…. unless their likeness is drawn on a wall you want to claim as your heritage.
That which makes one person “black” and another “arab semitic white” in the eyes of some people in this debate is so arbitrary and ascientific that it makes no sense to continue debating.
The longer a “pure” group of people, genetically speaking, exist and reproduce, the more variations of complexion, hair texture,color and noses eyes etc, will appear in the children. This is what clearly happened. As the population of say Southern Africa, like Uganda where Kemitic legends say their culture originated, grew and migrated, those varied appearances would appear in the people of the newly settled land.
Some of these things are almost obvious but there are those who are so incapable of acknowledging the accomplishments of those who were labeled “black”
The Skeptic
Rlb originated in the Middle East:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml
http://dictionary.sensagent.com/haplogroup+r1b+%28y-dna%29/en-en/
Also, you seem to be inferring a large Black heritage in the Lebanese population from slave trade – from the rest of your article that you did NOT print – in the conclusion — QUOTE,”The probability that 28 or more out of 33 samples drawn from a population would be Muslim when drawn from a population with 58% Muslim is estimated to be 9.50 × 10−4 by binomial test. Conversion to Islam provided a means to better treatment and possible later emancipation,30 and prohibition of non-Muslim slave ownership promoting slave conversions to Islam solely,31 explains SCD association with Muslim subjects. However, the limited penetration of SCD into Lebanese R-M343 contradicts a picture of many centuries of conversion and assimilation refreshed by caravan trade, implying a persistently structured population, even allowing for SCD introduction through the female line. Even though equilibration was not observed among R-M343 subjects, mixing was reflected by penetration to non-African haplogroups J-M267, J-M172 and E-M35. In all, this study reveals subtle population structure surviving for over two centuries in Lebanon, with significant medical consequences.” – TRANSLATION – after centuries of close contact of Lebanese with Blacks – the concentration of Black heritage is LOW, and, only highest among the Muslim Lebanese – prior to the 1967 war – Lebanon was 70% Christian, after, 70% Muslim – these are Palestinian Muslims. Ethnically, Palestinians are Arab Semitic White – by Nationality – 25-30% are Blacks, Black/Arab mixes. From this, we can deuce, a high percentage of Black heritage in Lebanese Muslims.Because of the close proximity of the ME and Africa – there is a high admixture of Blacks and Arabs – up to 30% in some Areas – additionally, the Ethiopian Empire spread through North Africa, into Yemen – the Arabs drove them back taking North Africa, again, mixing.It is NOT known whether the Queen of Sheba was Blank, Arab Semitic White, or, a mix – she ruled over both Blacks, and, Arabs, and, had a son by King Solomon, who was Jewish Semitic White.Jews, and Arabs are closely related peoples.
Cactaur
The Tassili frescoes is in Algeria – the ME – Arab Semitic White.
The Tassili frescoes are the key that unlocks the mystery.
neil b
My point was Blacks made their OWN achievements without attempting to claime Arab Semitic White achievements of building the Pyramids – Nok had advancements in agricultural techniques and crop rotation – the Dogon had advanced star system observations, and, calenders. Sorry – typo – Ta Seti was a Black Nubian tribe that taught the Ancient Egyptians, the hieroglyphs. Arabs are Semitic Whites – the Indo European Aryan Whites had nothing to do with building the Pyramids – R1b originated in the ME – also, some Sub Saharan Black tribes have it WITHOUT mixing.
Cactaur
This is an Arab achievement, neither, Black, nor, Jewish.
These mummy people had a pictographical tradition,it’s a healthy sign.
Teh Negroem have an oral tradition,the Kohenim an anal tradition.
Cos Seven
Your Afrocentric view is non sense – DNA proves it, Ancient Egyptians prove it, your hear say does NOT – quit claiming ArabSemitic White achievements for the Black Nubian culture – do view the mural over Seti I’s tomb – then you will see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Gates
Blacks had the advanced cultures of Nok Dogan, and Tau Seti – not going to school you here – Google them.
You will have to come up with something intelligent, and, factual – sorry, hear say does NOT cut it – since you do NOT understand DNA and haplomarkers – I recommend you take a course in Genetics, or, at the very least, read on your own, and, Google it.
:roll:
Yeah, I looked at the Book of Gates, and the whole point is a mixture of *different* races in the area. The Nubians were indeed “literally black”, and the Egyptians are intermediate. All this wrangling for months about races, really pitiful because many people are just “intermediate” and there’s no point in trying to force them into specific, bounded categories. We are not like cats versus dogs, with specific races made distinct like species.
Different races and mixtures did different things at different times. Europeans did excel but were mostly late-comers, once they discovered science and the key to technological progress.
:roll:
BTW, CN: There were separate Nok and Dogon (note spelling) cultures, and they were indeed both genuine “black African.” Thanks for calling them “advanced”, so you accept that even if you quibble over just exactly who was who? I can’t find a combined “Nok Dogon” – what of that?
As for Tau Seti – are you confusing Set of Egyptian religion with “Tau Ceti” the star? If so, you need to focus better.
Youre full of shit. red/brown, haploid markers. Fuck all that fraud shit. If you encountered any of those people in the streets of america or europe speaking english you would call them black, whether they were light skinned or “dark black.” What the fuck is “dark black” anyway? Black is an absolute color as is red and brown. Black is the darkest color so “dark black” is redundant and speaks to the foolishness of your “argument.”
The only reason for your asinine position is that you want to insinuate yourself to something you see of value in another culture. Just like the european corpornations when they see oil in one part of africa vs none in another. Where they want to take something they have all this “humanitarian” concern by which to mask their theifish motives. Where there is nothing of value to take they ignore it as worthless.
Similarly, since “blacks” are those that have been stripped of all human dignity to the best of the collective european abilities, you have no interest in being a part of that, but the same people by any standard, when clearly the originators of the single most amazing civilization to ever have existed in known history, you want to redefine in any way that allows you to insinuate your foreign identity into it.
You go on and fool yourself. Type away, just know that I am so unmoved by your foolishness. You have no idea how retarded you sound spouting off about haploid this and ethnic group that. Thats quackery that can be made to meet any agenda and those who control that information tend to be the same ones who taught that the Africans contributed nothing to civilization.
The greeks of old, who were able to see the “egyptians” first hand told you what they looked like. We dont need fallacious and convoluted dna jargon which none of us are able to verify. We can read the simple descriptions left by the likes of Diodorus and Herodotus who were apparently comfortable acknowledging the accomplishments of the “burnt faced” people of “egypt.”
Cos Seven
The THEORY” – “Out of Africa” does NOT mean all peoples originated from Black people, but all peoples had a common ancestor about 150,000- 200,000 years ago. I still believe the old “THEORY”, the 5 ethnic groups started at the same time in 5 different locations. In fact, Asian haplomarker M, is OLDER than any haplomarker M found in Africa – translation – humans did NOT start in Africa.
You can attempt to rationalize all you want – most of us can discern ethnic differences lay people refer to as racial types – DNA is NOW able to discern ethnic types. The Ancient Egyptians(redish brownish)in the Mural of Seti I discerned them selves from the Black Nubians(dark black). The people of India and Pakistan are classified as Indo European Aryan White although they are GENERALLY a mahogany color.Bottom line – the Black Nubians(or, any other Blacks) are NOT the Ancient Egyptians. Do go back an read my answers – I have also given the haplomatkers used in DNA tests.
Your logic is wholly flawed. First off your term “caucasian” features when applied to a “black” man whose nose is other than your “negroid” type is inapplicable. Like I said earlier, all phenotypes originated in Africa or the regions called Ethiopia by the greeks. Europeans dont even originate straight hair as before Europeans existed the natives of India had straight hair.
You say “I do NOT agree with the European ancestry, but with the Arab Semitic White ancestry”…. That statement just sounds foolish. White isnt even a valid term for this discussion as it is a social construct of the 16th or 17th century when europeans were trying to debase the identity of those they were enslaving in their “new world”
And a gene you call R1b couldnt have “originated” in the “Middle East” since the genes came from somewhere else. The gene perhaps found its first expression in a wide population there but it, just like the genes that make blond hair and blue eyes didnt originate anywhere but wherever the first humans started.
Environmental conditions cause a gene to express itself as a matter of survival and adaptation. There are many genes that have yet to be expressed in humanity and perhaps when conditions demand they will. They will not have originated where they appear for they will have been dormant in humanity since genesis if you will.
Really this infantile attachment to the land of Egypt is foolish. The statuary and reliefs speak for themselves. Beyond that the records of the Romans and Greeks who were able to see for themselves how they looked in Kemt/Egypt indicate clearly that they were not white AT ALL. But why take their word for it right?
Sickle Cell : R-M343 :
J Hum Genet. 2011 Jan;56(1):29-33. Epub 2010 Oct 28.
Y-chromosome R-M343 African lineages and sickle cell disease reveal structured assimilation in Lebanon.
Haber M, Platt DE, Khoury S, Badro DA, Abboud M, Tyler-Smith C, Zalloua PA.
Source
Medical School, The Lebanese American University, Beirut, Lebanon.
Abstract
We have sought to identify signals of assimilation of African male lines in Lebanon by exploring the association of sickle cell disease (SCD) in Lebanon with Y-chromosome haplogroups that are informative of the disease origin and its exclusivity to the Muslim community. A total of 732 samples were analyzed, including 33 SCD patients from Lebanon genotyped for 28 binary markers and 19 short tandem repeats on the non-recombinant segment of the Y chromosome. Genetic organization was identified using populations known to have influenced the genetic structure of the Lebanese population, in addition to African populations with high incidence of SCD. Y-chromosome haplogroup R-M343 sub-lineages distinguish between sub-Saharan African and Lebanese Y chromosomes. We detected a limited penetration of SCD into Lebanese R-M343 carriers, restricted to Lebanese Muslims. We suggest that this penetration brought the sickle cell gene along with the African R-M343, probably with the Saharan caravan slave trade.
The origin, time of spread or details of the association of SCD with Lebanese Muslims cannot be deduced from the genetic content of sickle haplotypes. The sickle mutation is estimated to have arisen 3000–6000 generations ago,[8, 9] whereas the haplotypes surrounding the β-globin locus are even older, limiting specificity of Lebanese SCD geographic origin.
Sources:
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=629
http://www.bioportfolio.com/news/article/229180/Y-chromosome-R-m343-African-Lineages-And-Sickle-Cell-Disease-Reveal-Structured.html
“DNA was extracted from blood using a standard phenol–chloroform method. Samples were genotyped using the Applied Biosystems 7900HT Fast Real-Time PCR System with a set of 28 custom Y-chromosomal binary marker assays (Applied Biosystems, Foster City, CA, USA) from the non-recombining portion of the Y chromosome, which define 21 haplogroups. The new samples were additionally amplified at 19 Y-chromosomal STR loci in two multiplexes and analyzed on an Applied Biosystems 3130xl Genetic Analyzer. The first multiplex contained the standard 17 loci of the Y-filer PCR Amplification kit (Applied Biosystems). The remaining two loci, DYS388 and DYS426, were genotyped in a separate custom multiplex provided by Applied Biosystems.”
Regarding King Tut:…
STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12 (12 is Predominantely Black African)
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11
The screen shot did not include DSY388 and DSY426 !
So teh Negroem are superior to the Kohenim.
Cos Seven
70% of American “Blacks” have White European ancestry – i.e. – President Obama. 40% of American “Whites” have Black ancestry – i.e. – James Watson, DNA researcher.
Cos Seven
Those “Blacks” with more Caucasian features are of MIXED ethnic – the features are well beyond genetic variation, I do NOT agree with the European ancestry, but with the Arab Semitic White ancestry – go back and read the evidence – R1b actually ORIGINATED in the ME. Sudan’s Northern half is Arab Semitic White – Ethiopia and Somalia’s Northern 1./3 is Arab Semitic White. North Africa is part of the Middle east – Blacks and Arab Semitic Whites have mixed significantly. Berbers, Moors, and, Hamites are mostly Arab, with some Black heritage – Hamites 50%-50% – i.e.- Anwar Sadat.
Cos seven
Discussion of ethnic differences in hair:
http://www2.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2004/research/2004_01_research01b.htm (Contains microscopic pictures of Caucasoid and Negroid hairs)
http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-12-0-000-10-Web/Anth-12-1-000-10-Abst-PDF/Anth-12-1-047-10-438-Sen-J/Anth-12-1-047-10-438-Sen-J-Tt.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=D_unxi9OELAC&oi=fnd&pg=PA149&dq=Caucasian,+and+Negroid+hair+morphology%3F&ots=MccEsvyIFm&sig=En4w7hYurSKz2GiPsoIvOrRcyjo#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://savethetruearabs.com/gpage4.html
Look at the man in the link. Look at his lips and nose. If he was sculpted in stone you would say he was a white man if it was an egyptian statue.
Well, I need to see 4 samples. A kinky strand, that same strand straightened chemically and then a naturally straight hair and that same hair 3000 years later. All magnified to show the “microscopic structure” whatever that would be. Maybe you mean molecular structure. I can assure you that after chemical processing with Lye and other chemicals there is profound loss of electrons/atoms that would serve to bind the hair in a spiraling structure. I think youre arguing from a place of egotistic attachment to what isnt yours rather than sound scientific thought.
At that link theres nothing to challenge my position. You seem to think that a straight nose bridge profile like that of Kafre indicates some kind of european identity. If you look around at African men from the side youll see that some of the widest nosed men in profile have that same straight line. African men have all of the face types because all races came from African genes.
The King Tut shown here: http://explorermf.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/king-tut-boy-king-or-warrior/
It is a stretch to say he is european. The fact that this article can even exist despite the obvious evidence is a sign of some sick mental issue that some europeans have. They either cant accept that Africans have a great history that eclipses that of europe or they are just unable to admit they were deceived by those who told them otherwise.
Cos seven
The basic cell structure of the Hair it self, remains unchanged – I guarantee you , just by sight alone – you could teel a Blck persons hair is fro a Black person, straightened artificially, or not. The microscopic structure remains in tact.
As for King Tut’s funerary masks – many made – col;or of the mask, and, lighting make them appear differenty. Check out the following link, and, article: http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
Whaddayou mean “not true?” I see women everyday whose hair is naturally kinky with straight hair due to the “basic structure” of it being altered by “those products.” What those products do is basically decay the protein, much like aging would do. Similarly many older African American hair becomes straighter as they age because the genetics and physiology which makes the hair have its genetic integrity declines.
So regardless of whats at your links my experience and common sense informs my claim.
BTW i also think such millenial decay also does a number on the integrity of dna and also the value of such tests are questionable. I think a more reliable source of the identity of King Tutankhamun is his funerary mask, all of which depict a rather African man.
Dave
NOT true – view the link I provided.
Cos Seven
NOT true – none of those products can alter the hair’s basic structure.
The same process by which hair straightening products degrade the protein structure of the hair I imagine that thousands of years also degrade the protein o hair folicles. Therefore mummies having straight hair doesnt necessarily mean their hair was that way when they were alive
this is extremely misleading notice how SNR’s are use to determine ancestry in this test but a real geneticist will know that SNR’s only date ancestry back several ancestry this already discredits the test they should did SNP which dates ancestry back a thousand years note they they never verified or actually presented their finding its all speculation Haplogroup predictor is also rubbish this test was fraudulent and pointless at the same time.
Western Europeans have no significant connection to Egypt they did not even have a writing system until 610 A.D and they have no architect no customs (hair, dress) that is even similar to Ancient Egyptians it makes no sense
somali truth
Absolutely NOT TRUE – to keep insisting the Ancient Egyptians were Black(Nubians, in particular), against DNA testing, is very racist – to be sure, Blacks did live among,,admix with the the Ancient Egyptians(Arab Semitic Whites) they were slaves as well as rulers in Egypt from about 800-700 B.C. – read this article – http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=12&chapid=55
Hair structure, that is NOT a wig, can differentiate Black and Caucasian hair. Radiocarbon dating also backs up the facts.
just lair 3400 old skin is dead impossile test y dna
even life human test y dna need more then one
test show mix result alot time these racist whites
are lair try to fool ass if that is true
some dead one is hard to prove who kill y dna decay after long time today egpty y dna most m78
media have done test and is very racsit
and lair never even tells white slave north africa
usa has always the most racist in world
Vladimir
In the ME – Arab Semitic White, and a few Indo European Aryan Whites(Greeks, Turks, Iranians) , and some Black Nubians – in other continents – Indian, NOT, White.
white man’s features are on mummies found all over the world. For all of you who dont believe white man ruled in egypt , need to look up the pharaohs. To the guy that said white are ”pussies” who could not rule egypt, all i have to say to you is look around whites still rule. Differents between whites and blacks , when it comes to war and fighting, Whites finish what the start but black fight for ever and there is no solution .Example african wars and gangs in usa. If white were playing these gang games between each other , there would have been a winner by now
R1b is not just European.
what a load of crap
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Haplogroup R1b
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA).jpg
Possible time of origin less than 18,500 years BP[1]
Possible place of origin Southwest Asia [2]
Ancestor R1
Descendants R1b1a (R-V88), R1b1b (R-P297)
Defining mutations 1. M343 defines R1b in the broadest sense
2. P25 defines R1b1, making up most of R1b, and is often used to test for R1b
3. In some cases, major downstream mutations such as M269 are used to identify R1b, especially in regional or out-of-date studies
Highest frequencies Western Europe, Northern Cameroon, Hazara, Bashkirs
Approximate distribution of Haplogroup R1b in Europe.
In human genetics, Haplogroup R1b is the most frequently occurring Y-chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe, parts of central Eurasia (for example Bashkortostan[3]), and in parts of sub-Saharan Central Africa (for example around Chad and Cameroon). R1b is also present at lower frequencies throughout Eastern Europe, Western Asia, Central Asia, and parts of North Africa. Due to European emigration it also reaches high frequencies in the Americas and Australia. While Western Europe is dominated by the R1b1b2 (R-M269) branch of R1b, the Chadic-speaking area in Africa is dominated by the branch known as R1b1a (R-V88). These represent two very successful “twigs” on a much bigger “family tree”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29
Jalmain
FIRST, Jews are Semitic White, like the closely related Arabs.Other than the Middle East fiasco, Jews have been involed in little other brutality, and, murder.Indo European Aryan Whites have been in every War, killing, looting, raping, among themselves, as well as others – Blacks have contributed to society to – they had the advanced civilizations of the Nok, Dogan, and tau Seti tribes – Google those.Here are some Black achievements:http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&q=Black+invntors
They realize that blacks are not responsible for the advanced civilization of Ancient Egpyt and how is this a surprise? Even to this day blacks have been totally incapable of creating decent living standards, nether loan an advanced ancient Egyptian civilization. Blacks have something deep in their blood which makes them act upon their most animal inpulses, such as aggression, sex (rape), stealing and destroying anything that contains any kind of order or civility. But we all know exactly how the Jewish controlled anti-white media is going to respond. It will be “this is RACIST! white Europeans are not allowed to shown as an advanced race with rich culture and history because its RACIST!!!!”
The only racists are these anti-white Genocidal jewish maniacs who love to teach everyone about how evil the white mans history has been.
Technically the Author of this article didn’t do any research regarding this article, especially the last line. If he did any research on the R1b haplogroup instead of just miming whatever words an actual scientist told him and presumably making the rest up on the spot, he’d know that R1b is also very common in places such as Cameroon, which I would hope isn’t considered a part of Europe.
Norbert Weiner
For a scientist, you do NOT sound like one – much of the Bible has been verified by Archeology as well as written information left by others – i.e. – Greeks, and, Egyptians, granted James the Just, has his own twisted version.I highly recommend you either read, or, subscribe to the Magazine, Biblical Archeology.\
I’ve studied the issue pretty thoroughly, and as for a mass Exodus from Egypt and a plague, there is no definitive modern archaeological data proving that anything like that number of people ever left the country, and all records from Ancient Egypt itself from that period make no mention of them.
Hey James the Just… I hate to tell you this, but your ‘knowledge’ of history seems a bit too limited to the bible, which isnt a historical document. Its a series of older stories put together for really no other purpose than Constantines satisfaction. some sort of guide from which teh followers of the christian church can get advice. thats all. problem is, when people in this day and age take archaic guidlines, they forget, we no longer travel on camels, or horses as a means of sales, or communication. Look into ACTUAL history. you won’t find that in the bible. all you’ll find there are truncated versions, and misinterpretations of the epic of creation written 3 to 5000 years earlier, poorly translated by jews, used in the Torah, and “borrowed” by muslims and christians.
Im going to believe actual scientists (being one myself) over some trite ill educated know it all.
cheers